<<But then, we know the mission of most of you is to just sit there and snipe at non-ipod points because the ipod issue isn't a very target rich environment for most of you. You don't know the territory, you don't know the inside players, you have a paltry exposure to a minicule sample of the territory and it must be hard being you all. >>
First off I just received an email that says Ipod shuffles are reduced to $49.00..perfect timing...;)
as to NH...My mission is to enjoy my time on this earth...a part of that involves running..with music..and a smile..
My other mission is to not allow a control freak Ma and Pa Kettle to decide how I should enjoy life and when I can listen to music...
Non- ipod points is called Humor NH..perhaps you've heard of it.. but it doesn't appear so...not everyone enjoys your humorless tunnel vision and target depleted view of life...
As of today the Ipod RULE issue is resolved..ipods are being used like they have and always will be....the RULE is not eliminated..the USATF has simply backed off till the end of the year in the face of huge numbers of angry ipoders and RD's...but you lost for now..Sorry....be a good sport for once in your life..deal with it...in December I anticipate an attempt to modify the rule to make as many runners as possible feel they were addressed..in other words no one will be happy..in November I will fire off multipule emails to refresh the USATF on the numbers behind this movement..seems today Barack O-ipod has the numbers, the lead, and the momentuem.. and you have Ron Paul..and Maryt is the bride of FrankenRomney...and of course phat Pat Paulson....
It's hard being Green as Kermit sang...but it's nice to be nice.. and nice to be us..know why? this face:x
Geez, as a mature adult, if I can be trusted (by city codes, etc) to wear headphones on my long training runs, can't I just sign a liability release during a paid race? Yes, I think that, 5 - 10 years from now we'll look back on this conflict and wonder what the fuss was about.
(I personally don't usually wear electronics/headphones during a race, since I value the human interaction with other runners.)
<<However, the main issue is that there are currently only two sources of road race insurance and I maintain that is because nobody else wants to touch it with 10 foot pole. These pro-ipoders poo poo that and say that races should just shop around as if such coverage was a commodity like auto or house insurance. >>
Pants on 4 alarm fire....I have posted directly to you NH the link to event insurance. but you persist on lying and saying there are two sources to make a point to save your argument...you don't have an argument..you just have that too long in the Bar seat expert on nothing Blah blah blah....just write I don't know.. Blah Blah Blah.. and save time...
the page below has 12 sources and this page is one of 10 pages of insurers... there is one called Cheap Insurance Inc....would suggest that first for those RDs wanting to save that extra $2.30 that ipods cost:) and day old bagels.
GEICO Auto Insurance
Get a Free Instant Insurance Quote! See How Much You Could Save.
Private Event Insurance insurance safeguards your event investment with cancellation, postponement and liability coverage, plus protection for special ...
www.privateeventinsurance.com/ - 11k - Similar pages
Offers event insurance services including festivals, liability, special events, restaurant, weather, nightclub, and event cancellation.
www.csicoverage.com/ - 2k - Similar pages
Allen Financial Entertainment is a leading provider of special event, concert and entertainment liability insurance throughout the United States.
www.eqgroup.com/entertainment.htm - 44k - Similar pages
Carnival and Festival Special Event Liability Insurance, One Day Event Insurance, Bowling Center, Saddle Horse, Zoo, Golf, Go Kart, Canoe Boat and Kayak ...
www.alliedspecialty.com/ - 17k - Similar pages
Sports Insurance provides all types of sports and event insurance including amateur accident sports insurance, public liability, professional indemnity and ...
www.sportsinsurance.com/ - 20k - Similar pages
Event Insurance policies feature $3 million in coverage and are underwritten by an A+ rated carrier. They also include up to two additional insured at no ...
www.fracturedatlas.org/site/liability/ - 19k - Similar pages
Exhibition & Event Managers Liability Insurance Application. Special Event Insurance that will meet the insurance requirements of the event venue. ...
www.buttine.com/exhib_event_app.htm - 31k - Similar pages
<<<<< the page below has 12 sources and this page is one of 10 pages of insurers... there is one called Cheap Insurance Inc....would suggest that first for those RDs wanting to save that extra $2.30 that ipods cost:) and day old bagels.
thank you for pointing out the obvious. Who would have thought there are listing for insurance. Nothing I've said or posted carrys any weight with you, so why would I post anything. I know what I will find there, you don't.
The only way this is going to get resolved is for you or someone else on your side of the table to see for yourself what exists or doesn't exits. Nothing I post will pass muster with you.
Do your own leg work since you think additonal sources MUST be readily available. If I say I checked with these sources and they have nothing or nothing pricewise you won't believe it. You've set the "I don't believe you" bar here.
The other thing to ask for when you do is that you will also need to acquire Directors and Officiers insurance for whatever entitiy is manageing the race. That is a separate item which clubs and races need. That is different from the general liability coverage that we have been speaking about. That little very expensive sucker comes with the RRCA insurance but many USATF events neglect to get it at a considerable risk for things a race committee does at times before and after a race, such as at planning meetings.
You are not going to find ANY link to ANY page which explains or covers road race insurance. There is no such thing other than the specially negotieted one-off policy that was arrange by the USATF and RRCA. Totally custom policy. There is no off the shelf. The special policy was only "of interest" to the insurance companies because it was a huge book of business done through one admistrative source (the USATF and RRCA) and not with individually with thousands of once-a-year committee people who have to be educated or re-educated each year as race personnel changes.
D & O for a running club is almost non-existant but is available privately sometimes for a huge amount that probably exceeds the dues of most clubs leaving them no money for anything else. They HAVE to get it through the RRCA, the have functionally no option.
Edited to Add:
I checked one the links that had some prices for things that would much safer than actually get out on the roads to see that maybe I was wrong and if the world turned upside down after I turned out the light to go to bed last night. The prices for base coverage which isn't even close to enough is big time bucks without the various extra cost riders for things like volunteers and Alcohol, both of which are covered under current race insurance at no extra cost.
And you accuse us of sniping...lol... You seem to like patting yourself on the back, I was simply pointing that out Snipe away my friend, snipe away!
I just saw that to about the Ipod Shuffle. If I didn't use the Nike Plus chip, I would have just gotten a shuffle. They are nice because they are so small, easy to hide if you get my drift Although truly, my Nano is small so I run with it in my hand rather then strapped to my arm, much easier to check my pace, time and switch songs.
Chick a dee
I have a shuffle for running/biking and a nano I use thru my car stereo..I also have the Nike + system and love the concept of a sexy female voice announcing my distance and speed on a new route...but I have problems with the shoe transmitter..it goes dead .. on my third one...each time having to calibrate...the shuffle plays songs in random order so I rarely adjust it once I'm underway...might crank it on a good song... Carpenter's Only Just Begun" gets cranked to head bang'en volume (that's wry, exagerated ,observational humor intended as a put on in case NH is scractching his titanium noggin try to figure that one)...
I have never bothered to hide my ipod.. or years ago my sony walkman..never came up in 5, 698,001 races that I have run and placed consistently numero uno every time I see runners hook their shuffle on the back of their hat either inside or outside and run the wires underneath the back of their running shirt.. it's almost unnoticeable and seems to cure the cords flopping ..but I could care less..never been approached nor have I seen anyone approached...
So Runner Chick'en..what do you think of this ipod victory..temporary? ...sustainable?..can't seem to get anyone to talk about the elephant with the ipod in the room...Phatty Patty does not have my confidence on getting anything correct or accurate..what's your take..??
I kind of feel the same about a nice sexy male voice Once I calibrated, it has worked pretty well. It isn't always accurate when there is allot of snow or ice but mostly it might be a tenth or so off, not much. A couple Satudays ago I did a 7.2 run, there was snow and allot of slush yet the darn thing was almost dead on....go figure! Mostly I got it so I could run the neighborhoods and not have to worry about remembering each and every road I traveled as I try to map it out on Maymyrun.com. I love rocking out to Magic Carpet Ride and the Beastie Boys You gotta fight...for your right...to IIIIIIIIIIIIIPOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD Sing it with me Parker!
No, in the 5, 699,002 races I have competed in and have won every single time at a 3:40 pace, I have never felt the need to hide my musical device either. Watch out for those cords, they are so long they could string across an entire course...lol...
It would be great if we could put this issue to bed once and for all. I mean, the whole you can't race with your Ipod cause you might cut someone off, trip someone with your cord or get run over by a veering 747 is crap! In all my 5, 699, 002 races, I have never seen an issue So am I getting this correctly? There is a ban but the USATF is not going to require its races to adopt the ban? If that is the case then ban, what ban! I'm all for pushing runner etiquette because that includes everyone and excludes no one!
I really like Runner Chick'en, I think I may have to adopt that name
Hey Team EyePod, got this very brief response from Running USA about Phat's alleged info regarding the USATF not enforcing the iPod ban:
The below is a USATF matter/rule and USATF needs to confirm or deny the below. Wish their response had been more specific....wish they had actually answered my question about if the iPod ban had been discussed at their conference, but they didn't. Why am I surprised since our own bureaucratic blow hards don't answer questions? A bit under the weather today so I'm off for the night....but before I go, can I just say to parker, YIKES - "We've Only Just Begun" by The Carpenters?!?!?!? Do you have The Osmond Brothers and The Partridge Family on your Pod, too?!?!
<<I checked one the links that had some prices for things that would much safer than actually get out on the roads to see that maybe I was wrong and if the world turned upside down after I turned out the light to go to bed last night. The prices for base coverage which isn't even close to enough is big time bucks without the various extra cost riders for things like volunteers and Alcohol, both of which are covered under current race insurance at no extra cost.>>
First off NH ..you need to drop back a few grade levels and do some remedial writing classes...the American Indian idiom you write in is like trying to translate the Dead Sea Scrolls ( No RK! not that Dead)
second off ..try to put a comprehensible sentence structure or two together that doesn't run on unchecked like an e.e. cummings poem..
Personally I wouldn't put you in charge of the concession stand at the local go cart track...that's how much you have impressed me...
You stated very clearly there are ONLY two sources for insurance....two!...I'll cut and paste your statement if you need refreshing...
I stated there were more..
you stated NO! there are ONLY two...
I gave you a link for others..you ignore that link or chose to omit the information..you wait patiently ...
And then again state there are two sources for insurance...I post the link to over a hundred running event insurers..
You avoid that small "there are only 2" error and begin to to price compare with one link among the hundreds available..Big Bucks you say!..
I didn't ask you to buy insurance you mahogany knothead..it was an acknowledgement that there are more than two insurance options...and you my little Rain man.. totally oblivious to the ONLY 2 statement write your findings like a tree monkey with an interesting coconut to crack..
And the topper is the cost rider for alcohol that adds BIG BUCKS..what say we skip that rider NH..I'm just not up for jelly shooters after my marathons...When will you write something factual and true..will it happen in our lifetime?? it's not looking good is it NH?
Sorry to hear there is less Lah in your Runner tonight.. maybe you need a little Carpenters?.. or maybe The Captain and Tenile's "Love will bring us together"
or some "Muskrat Love"? yeah thats it...that will make you feel better:)
..or better yet since I've posted NH just now.... The Monkeys."Last Train to Clarksville"
the healing spirit of Music...the best medicine we know...hold your nose and take a dose..I prefer a little beefy'er broth for what ails me..some Shelby Lynne if I'm feeling punky..some Miser, Dredg, One Republic if I need a boot to the booty .." Come on get Happy!!!" Lah... Have some warm soul comforting Partridge soup for sup'er tonight..
Re: Ipods....Facts and evidence are highly overated..BS or ommision will work in a pinch..
" needs to confirm or deny the below" this sounds like govt. speak...or worse military ..have to call in RK to translate...
Did someone call for a sniper????
Who ya gone a call? for some people the worst pain you can inflict on them is to let them be themselves..we have three cases in point here...
These quotes seemed apropo ...and provide a new trio of wisdom and crediblity...NH will Blah Blah that Benjamin Franklin, Mark Twain, and Charlie Chaplin just don't get it like he does...and that he and Maryt lived next door to Ben as teengagers and "seed" he didn't use an ipod...
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety.. deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin (Team Ipod)
*"Humor heightens our sense of survival and preserves our sanity.
Charles Chaplin (Team Ipod)*
"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it frustrates you and annoys the pig."
Mark Twain (Team Ipod)*<br /</p>
<<You avoid that small "there are only 2" error and begin to to price compare with one link among the hundreds available..Big Bucks you say!..
<<<I didn't ask you to buy insurance you mahogany knothead..it was an acknowledgement that there are more than two insurance options...and you my little Rain man.. totally oblivious to the ONLY 2 statement write your findings like a tree monkey with an interesting coconut to crack..
<<<And the topper is the cost rider for alcohol that adds BIG BUCKS..what say we skip that rider NH..I'm just not up for jelly shooters after my marathons...When will you write something factual and true..will it happen in our lifetime?? it's not looking good is it NH?
Are you really interested in solving the problem or is your mission to find seemingly inconstancies in what I write.
and the problem is YOU. You have so little knowledge of the subject you don't even know you aren't asking or seeking the right answers for the race sport on the subject. You don't even know that you don't come up to the level of "rookie". There is too much to know to try to put in short posts and not have things sound things are missing or confusing. I type faster than my thoughts can be edited by my brain, so sue me.
That doesn't mean that one doesn't know the subject. And I sorry you guys find that my exposure to many topics is annoying. To bad folks, if you'd get involved with varied interests you would learn more, read more, research more, and become a half-arst expert in quit a few things. And the kicker is when you do most of the stuff for a living as well you just might know more that some of the posters who do work at things for a living. I was a VP in a multi-line insurance company in my prior life and that is a lucky or unlucky coincidence depending which side the table you sit at in this debate.
A big part of the problem is that the subject of insurance for ALL races as a group is that picking and choosing the details ( that you know about at the races), leaves you woefully uneducated about what the whole sport needs relative to insurance. RDs can not afford to spend the time buy insurance to fit them, they only have the time and money to buy into a huge pre-bought package negotiated over some time by a large group. Otherwise the liability limits, property damage limits are not enough to satisfy many city and state requirements.
The RRCA insurance does not provide a property damage coverage required by most states for use of public facilities. The USATF insurance does not have the aggregate cover for liability to satisfy many cities and states, so many races have to get coverage from both sources and are paying for overlapping coverage in some parts of the policy.
This is not simply stuff.
There are only TWO sources of ROAD RACE insurance (ON ROADS WITH OPEN COURSES) and the race sport runs over 90 percent of its races on open road courses. If you want to pretend that is not true, then stop right here, we can NEVER get anywhere.
The site you pointed to are for all kinds of insurances, many of which SOUND to a rookie like they MUST be what we NEED. What you might be talking about doesn't count in the end. What counts is what the race sport needs. And it needs insurance with my definitions, not your know-nothing definitions.
Remeber we have to solve this for the whole sport because most of race cannot afford major increases in premiums. Most races (about 95% if you recall from the numbers I pointed you to) are not jogathons and do not have an entry fee that can stand many more dollars add to the fee just for insurance. These races are a life blood of thousands of community charities and adding $3 or $5 to an entry fee to shorter distance races is highly problematical.
I have to worry about the whole sport and ALL the races, where selfish little you only worry about the jogathons where $5 increase (if that's what will solve it for jogathons) is nothing for races of marathon distances. it's a pittance there.
And for your uninformed information, thousand of races have as a major sponsor or important sponsor, Breweries, especially micro-breweries, especially local small breweries. Races don't get to pick and chose the insurances riders. The policies cover volunteers, alcohol (because some IAAM idiot will bring it to the race), vehicle usage and various kinds of medical riders. and the Directors and Officer insurance is a requirement for a race to have before they get insurance from the UASTF or they have pay extra which is not cheap for small events.
So being a jerk and saying you found INSURANCE options is NOT true unless you find workable insurance that ROAD RACES can buy at reasonable prices and where individual races do not have spend the time to get quotes and negotiate each race. There is no time for RDs to do that.
You guys don't like long posts but much of what you don't know about for races is way more involved than your "you would think" comments show.
A very high percentage of non-marathon races are managed by running clubs. Running clubs get there insurance from the RRCA. The cost to the clubs has nothing to do with how many races or how many runners are in the race. The annual premium is based on the number of members in the running clubs. There is no relationship to entry fees and the price to a running club is the same EVEN if that club manages no races.
So any major or minor increase in RRCA liability insurance, because it is a group policy would KILL, DESTROY, CAUSE TO GO OUT OF EXISTANCE, many running clubs because they could not afford insurance and they didn't even manage one race.
That is just one of the many unspoken reasons why you guys are putting the sport in jeapardy. It isn't just about YOU and your darn music.
Do you really think RDs haven't looked for alternatives. and you call me a knothead. Do you honestly believe that I'm making this stuff up?
<<<<<Never try to teach a pig to sing; it frustrates you and annoys the pig."
Mark Twain (Team Ipod)*<
It is rather funny but when it comes to this whole subject, this really applies to the ipoders.
You know so little and want what you need to know laid at your feet.