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256208 Views 1,829 Replies Latest reply: Nov 12, 2008 10:05 AM by michaelmack33 RSS Go to original post 1 ... 105 106 107 108 109 ... 122 Previous Next
  • parkerand susan Legend 363 posts since
    Oct 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,590. Feb 21, 2008 9:05 AM (in response to NHSenior)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    Thank you for the unibomber manifesto..must be a mite chilly in that ramshackled cabin...

     

     

    It's not so much the length of a post, NH ..as what it says..The points made..unfortunately, you can write for days and not reach a point nor a conclusion..other than someone else is not as smart as you..which is Really "the funny thing" as you say...

     

     

    Enough of long winded varnishing of the truth..You make foundational statements that are wrongheaded..then launch into detail ozone based on the false premise..this is fallacial argument at it's finest..you say you type faster than your brain can edit...in conversation that's called talking without brain engaged..provide proveable facts, slow down the typing, engage the brain and your posts will resemble lucid communication..not a school boy's fever dreams..

     

     

    Post the statistical source that 90% of race courses are open...not your estimate based on experience...that doesnt work ..you've made up statistics for 100 pages and most have been found to be untrue..this one is in that group untill there is evidence..and if it matters at all.. which it doesn't.

     

     

    The USATF said no races will be effected by insurance requests if they allow Ipods in races... Nothing is ever simple for you because you live to make things complicated ..it makes you feel important to blather useless information..the open courses you and Maryt participate in are poorly organized death marches probabely RD'd by someone like you...they are inherently dangerous because they are organized by amateurs or someone trying to save a buck at the expense of safe courses..I imagine small New England towns are tough to deal with in permiting..they are populated by conservative folks with a limited national perspective ..much like you...welcome to the P in A world...you down grade jogathons and praise podunk car infested races as a standard to use for all racing.. ipods are nothing compared to the issues that need to be addressed and fixed in those deathathon auto races...

     

     

    If a small race charged $28 instead of 20 or 25 and indicated that the fee included the use of ipods, or wheelchairs, or kids..blind/assisted runners, baby joggers...I would pay it... 5 or 10 doesn't decide my race choice..and I think most runners would agree..Triathlons are $80 and that seems steep..but..I understand why.....

     

     

    I accept paying extra for runners that won't place or come close ..and even slow me down at times..it's the RIGHT thing to do!! ..not the CHEAPEST!! this sport is growing in leaps and bounds and penny pinching RD's are few...and ill informed..

     

     

    IPODS are not an insurance issue to date....that is an established fact..engage your brain with your fingers...put the varnish on the shelf..build on that accurate premise with sustainable facts and evidence, and you may write something that surprises you and I both..the unvarnished truth..

     

     

     

     

     

  • Jay Silvio We're Not Worthy 1,775 posts since
    Jul 9, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,591. Feb 21, 2008 9:26 AM (in response to parkerand susan)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing
    parkerand susan wrote:

    I went to my 1st Marathon voluteer meeting and were told that several voluteers/officials would be in communication with headsets during the race..I of course suggested they might succumb to headphone stupor and injure an innocent spectator ..which got a laugh from my fellow voluteers and the RD..*

    Will you have another meeting in the near future?  If so, could you ask one of the senior officials about what insurance options were considered for the event?

  • parkerand susan Legend 363 posts since
    Oct 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,592. Feb 21, 2008 9:49 AM (in response to Jay Silvio)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    Jay

     

     

    Feb 26 th is our last meeting to receive vests, packets and further instructions..I have met the RD..but the volunteer organizer that handles my end is busy herding cats and doesn't know much about our ipod issue..or care...but ..I plan to smooze a little during my 7hrs and seek some answers. my recent emails and personal contact seems to be "it's a non issue"..use 'em responsibly if you got em..no mention of ipods in the volunteer meetings...

     

     

    Anything on your end re; the usatf and lifting of the ipod embargo?

     

     

  • Tymberlynn Rookie 7 posts since
    Feb 21, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,593. Feb 21, 2008 10:16 AM (in response to Active Toby)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    Ok I understand the arguements against IPODs while running races. And to be quite honest I find them quite ridiculous.  If people are so worried about runners being injured while running with headphones and not being able to hear important announcements then have them wear the new necklaces that have speakers built into them.  Problem solved.  Besides that if you dont want people wearing headphones thats fine, in a race situation I really only want my IPOD to track my progress which I dont need my headphones to do that. And dont tell me its ok to banned them for that purpose when they still will allow runners to use GPS on the race track.  Its the same deal.  I really do not understand all the commotion about these devices if you want to use the idea of the purity of the race, thats still crazy because there was a time when they used that idea to keep women from running.  Times are changing and technology is becoming a player in a lot of aspects of people lives.  Im not saying you have to use and IPOD, there are days when I do not want to use mine, but I also do not think we should punish people because they like to listen to music while running.  And just because people are wearing IPODs while running a race does not mean that they are missing out on the race atmosphere for that runner the atmosphere is still being obsorbed by just being there and participating and i have yet to meet a runner who cannot hear the crowds no matter how loud the music is up. All in all I think this is just a tactic by people who do not want casual runners involved in racing.  There have been race directors that have said publicly that their races are for elites only and I think this is one way of them weeding out the people who are not elites, and I think that is wrong if you want to run the race and pay the fee then you should be able to do so.  And if you want to listen to music while running that race more power to you!

  • NHSenior Legend 387 posts since
    Nov 23, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,594. Feb 21, 2008 2:01 PM (in response to parkerand susan)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    Post the statistical source that 90% of race courses are open...not your estimate based on experience...that doesnt work ..you've made up statistics for 100 pages and most have been found to be untrue..this one is in that group untill there is evidence..and if it matters at all.. which it doesn't.

     

     

     

     

     

    ".....Have been found to be untrue" Talk about a god-like complex. Because you state that lack of acceptable proof proves something is not true, is of course, ludicrous. But then you wallow is this safe "forum" state of rejection of anything because you can.

     

     

    However, as to some independent opinions of the ratio of open vs road courses, I'm working on it. I'm sure you will try to claim I'm making it up, but here are a couple of comment from the "real world".

     

     

    These are from people I don't know, nor do they know me. The aren't all hung up in their shorts about agendas in dealing with a request for information. My request asked the question and mentioned a discussion elsewhere regarding safety issues which in some cases are based on closed vs open.

     

     

    ===========

    Most of the races I have run are on open roads. To include some large races including halfs and full marathons. There may be portions of the course that is closed due to the large number of runners. For example, when I ran the RNR HM in VA beach there was several thousand runners, the first 1/2 of the run was on closed roads and then the second half was on open road, at least half the lane was open to traffic.

     

    the Rocket City Marathon was on mostly open roads, it was kindof scary when cars would pass you at 40 - 45 MPH from your back. did care for that. Almost all 5Ks that I have run were on open roads, with the exception of large races of 500 or more runners. Too many runners on the road to close them.

     

    Hope this helps. __________________

    David (edited by NHSenior to add "Alabama")

     

     

    ==========================================

    Phoenix, AZ area, here.

     

    I would say almost all of the races I have been on have been closed courses. The major exception was the Mummy Mountain 10 Miler. We don't have a lot of hills in the Valley of the Sun. Closing the roads on Mummy Mountain would essentially mean closing the neighborhood.

     

    Closed roads usually means one lane closed, one side of the street closed, or the shoulder coned with police patrolling the route.

     

    I know you said marathons don't count. I still want to mention the Tucson Marathon. That course was mostly closed except strangely for part of the last 2 miles. __________________

    Cheers,

    Billy

     

     

    ==============================

    Mid-Missouri here. All but one of the races I have run have been open road course, no lanes closed. I have run one half, two 10K's, a half dozen or so 5K's and one 8K race. The 8K race was on a paved trail so I guess you could call it a "closed course" but it was not closed to other pedestrian or bike traffic.

     

     

    =============================

    I'm in So Cal and have run many races..... I'd say the ones I've run are split pretty evenly 3 ways...... open courses, closed courses, and courses that aren't run on public roads or highways. So far as a safety issue, I think it's a non-issue..... I feel safer running a race on an open course than I do when I'm out on a training run on the streets.

     

    One of my favorite race series is put on my the LA Sheriff's Department where some of the races are very small and they basically give you a police escort through very open streets...... and some of them in not-so-nice areas of L.A.

     

     

     

    Edited to add by NHSenior: I asked not include marathons because they are only 4.7% of the number of races and more likely to be on closed course which I'll concede the 4.7% without objection. Notice the comments about non-closed marathons. Hmmmmm

     

     

    BTW, there was no cutting and pasting for effect. This was all the replies over a short time period of mintues. Nothing edited(except for a State as noted) , nothing deleted. There have been more since.

     

     

    I wouldn't bet on taking your opinions to the bank after the next post on this subject

  • parkerand susan Legend 363 posts since
    Oct 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,595. Feb 21, 2008 2:02 PM (in response to NHSenior)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy..the absence of evidence is the the evidence of absence..

     

     

    Used by Joseph McCarthy ( "I do not have evidence in my file to disprove you are a Communist..therefore I find you to be a Communist")

     

     

    And Sec. of Defense Donald Rumsfeld "Because we have not found Weapons of Mass Destruction, does not mean they do not exist"..of course any intelligent person sees thru this fallacy at once.. because I believe in unicorns..does not mean they exist because I have not found one yet.

     

     

    I'm guessing you think your roledex friends David and Billy are statistisions..because I asked you to verify your assertions of percentages with verifiable facts and statistics...David and Billy are runners that have run closed, open, and combinations of both....In collecting data for your analysis I have four friends who are as we speak swilling beer and scracthing some part of their anatomy and belching very loud and often, that I can call and we can add to your vast statistical sample universe of two guys you know..a well known statistical sample base used by many physcists with two friends... who then apply the Nh algorithm for infurential analysis and infer thoretical theories from there...Pee Wee Herman also uses this statistical method..one of his friends is a sheep...

     

     

    If ignorance is bliss you Nh are on happy man..I'd say I envy you ..but the price for happiness in this case is way too high...

     

     

  • parkerand susan Legend 363 posts since
    Oct 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,596. Feb 21, 2008 2:16 PM (in response to Tymberlynn)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    right on tymberlynn..well said..

     

     

    we have information a few pages back to contact the USATF and email your view on ipod use..this organization is the main problem with ipod use in their sanctioned races..in Decembr they will review this ban and modify it based on the number of runners that contact them..help Team Ipod with your email to Mr. Finke...idf you can't locate the contact info..I will post it for you again...Tks

     

     

  • NHSenior Legend 387 posts since
    Nov 23, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,597. Feb 21, 2008 2:44 PM (in response to parkerand susan)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    <<<<<<<<<I'm guessing you think your roledex friends David and Billy are statistisions..because I asked you to verify your assertions of percentages with verifiable facts and statistics..

     

     

     

     

     

    Like I said before, you are truly an AH. Do you required audited reference for the rest of your life. How did you know what bike to buy or gear to get. Did you tell some of the more experience runners or bikers they couldn't be trusted in their advice because they couldn't give you book, chapter and verse on verifiable fact on what stuff was best. You are really are blowing smoke and in a tail spin in this one and I think you know it.

     

     

    The comments are comming from just one on the very active running forums which get hundreds of times more action that the piddly posts that happen on the Active.com forums.

     

     

    Nobody on the forum I pulled from has seen any post there by me because the one they are responding is my first there. These are purely random comments from typcial runners. Of course it's not balls-on statistically accurate, but the predominance that is appearing certainly puts enough egg on your face of bury your whole body.

     

     

    You are full of it and it is now showing up. As I've said all along.

  • JacobBunner Pro 79 posts since
    Sep 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,598. Feb 21, 2008 4:29 PM (in response to NHSenior)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    does AH stand for Awesome Host?

  • NHSenior Legend 387 posts since
    Nov 23, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,599. Feb 21, 2008 6:27 PM (in response to JacobBunner)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    <<<<does AH stand for Awesome Host?

     

     

     

     

     

    You are remarkably perceptive. My thought exactly. No hidding stuff from you guys.

     

     

  • parkerand susan Legend 363 posts since
    Oct 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,600. Feb 21, 2008 7:53 PM (in response to NHSenior)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    thank you Jacob..but maybe what NH meant when he wrote I was an AH ..was "Always Helpfull" .. as I do try to help him unconfuse his homework...

     

     

    Though NH doesn't do his homework most of the time...he's a lazy boy.... so he tries to BS the teacher by playing a little loose with the facts..kinda makes stuff up that sorta sounds good to him ... it's piddly D and F work but he's satisfied with that...hoping the teacher doesn't look too close.. or might have pity on him and let it slide...apparantly today the dog ate his statistics...oh well...he'll make up some more..with a side of Balooney...Gotta make the Balooney..But unfortunately for NH there is no hiding Balooney from "us guys" ..for when he throws out his usual slab of Balooney.. "we guys" slice it up for him, slap some sense on it, pepper some facts and figures over it, Biggy Size it and make a well toasted BS Hoagie for him to eat later.. He doesn't like the taste at all, and it makes him call the Hoagie maker names...but we have to make him eat it cause he keeps bringing BS and Balooney to the Hoagie Shop...if he leaves off the BS and Balooney we can make a tasty Hoagie..maybe Italian with salami.. he might like that ..tommorrow...  cause he thinks I'm so helpful.. I'm going to put some extra face egg on NH's BS Hoagie....special...just for him

     

     

    Jacob...maybe it was Apprehending Half-wits

     

     

  • Runner Chick'en Pro 145 posts since
    Jan 24, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,601. Feb 22, 2008 2:34 AM (in response to parkerand susan)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    Maybe NH thinks your A Hottie 

     

     

     

     

     

    The more names he calls us simply means that he is afraid that we might be right and further more, that the people in charge might see our POV and agree with it.  He talks about hostile people but he is the most hostile person I have ever had the misfortune of having contact with.  And truly it is a shame because most times, I look up to people who have been running as long as NH has.  I look to them for advice on my own running, ways to improve my distance and speed, pointers that you just can't get from a website.  But with all the deragatory names and such, any resepct that he might have gotten, is lost!  That is just a real shame!

     

     

  • Jay Silvio We're Not Worthy 1,775 posts since
    Jul 9, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,602. Feb 22, 2008 6:05 AM (in response to parkerand susan)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing
    parkerand susan wrote:

    Anything on your end re; the usatf and lifting of the ipod embargo?

    I haven't received anymore emails (I am surprised Portland never responded).  My quick google search was unable to locate any info that stated the ban would not be enforced this year.  While I was searching, I got an email from Metrosports magazine (I get notifications from the Washington, DC version) stating that their online edition had been updated.  The homepage ( http://www.metrosportsdc.com/ ) linked the article from Feb 9 regarding the "Universal No Headphones Icon".  That still seems to be the most recent release from the RRCA or USATF.  Unless you care that the 2008 U.S. Olympic Team Trials - Track & Field in Oregon will be a tobacco-free event...

     

    ps - The name calling is on the rise again (from both sides).  Please attack issues, not other members.

    Thanks!

  • lahrunner Pro 103 posts since
    Dec 21, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,603. Feb 22, 2008 6:57 AM (in response to Runner Chick'en)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    I think you're right, RunnerChick, AH stands for A Hottie!!!  N(ever) H(appy) has been peeking in parker's windows and saw him in his Batdude tights and cape!!  

     

     

    Eight days until the iPod friendly L.A. Marathon!!!

     

     

  • parkerand susan Legend 363 posts since
    Oct 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,604. Feb 22, 2008 8:25 AM (in response to Runner Chick'en)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    Runner Chick'en..I just threw up in my mouth a little!

     

     

    It is a shame I agree...when you try to exclude runners you end up getting excluded yourself..any contribution is negated by trying to rule the world and make it in your own image

     

     

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