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254960 Views 1,829 Replies Latest reply: Nov 12, 2008 10:05 AM by michaelmack33 RSS Go to original post 1 ... 106 107 108 109 110 ... 122 Previous Next
  • parkerand susan Legend 363 posts since
    Oct 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,605. Feb 22, 2008 8:44 AM (in response to lahrunner)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    Ok Princess Lah Lah Land..the NH peeking thing is sick!..just not right!! now I'm really going to barf  Don't make me get Jay to give you a firm scolding for extreme thread tastelessness.

     

     

    Although..... I am style'en in my Navy Blue Bat tights ...and for future reference I don't wear my cape at home..I find that gauche and unseemly for a Super Hero of the people..presently I have workers in the Bat Cave designing a matched set of velvet leggings and a Bat thong for Robin (Prof. RK) ...coming soon the Bat in the Hat..the Bruce Wayne formal wear line, Red Breasted Robin teddies...and the Black Toed Bat Boots just for the Princess... hot hot hot..

     

     

  • NHSenior Legend 387 posts since
    Nov 23, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,606. Feb 22, 2008 8:46 AM (in response to parkerand susan)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    <<<<by trying to rule the world and make it in your own image

     

     

     

     

     

    You guys are arrogant to the nth degree.

     

     

    The world (the running world) existed before you got off your duffs. That world had a order and rules. You guys show up and assume that you can remake it in YOUR image without, I might add, knowing what that image really is. (IE, how things work, what kind of and how many races there are, who and what level are things managed, what are the inherent safety issues of the greatest majority of the courses, and a miriade of subjects not yet broached.)

     

     

    You show up knowing nothing, expect all knowledge to be forgotten or proved to you by laying it at your feet as if you were god and demand to be made aware of that knowledge.

     

     

    AND you wonder why you notice some hostility. Thick as a brick, you are.

  • lahrunner Pro 103 posts since
    Dec 21, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,607. Feb 22, 2008 8:57 AM (in response to NHSenior)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    "Thick As A Brick" was my second favorite Jethro Tull album...."Aqualung" being my first.  The opening lyrics of "Aqualung" makes me wonder if Ian Anderson knew our resident misanthrope:

     

     

    Sitting on a park bench

    eyeing up little girl

    with bad intent.

    Snot running down his nose

    greasy fingers smearing shabby clothes

     

     

     

  • parkerand susan Legend 363 posts since
    Oct 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,608. Feb 22, 2008 9:09 AM (in response to NHSenior)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    <<You guys are arrogant to the nth degree. >>>

     

     

    I guess when you say runners are prisoners, that they have no rights, only the right to be told what they will do, when you call new posters twits and stupid and tell them they know nothing. ..is that not the height of arrogance??...or do you Forget, Omit or Ignore (If you'd  like I can paste a few NH Gems and we can amble down memory lane together) ....you of all people NH live in glass house, and should keep that arrogant stone and most any other in the quarry..your pseudo puffed up arrogance has met real world facts, real numbers and inclusive attitudes and runners who will not back down.

     

     

    Look in your own mirror ..I think you'll see arrogant...angry.. and a grim sour Yodi face...with the Force....out of touch... you are

     

     

  • parkerand susan Legend 363 posts since
    Oct 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,609. Feb 22, 2008 9:13 AM (in response to lahrunner)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    Absolutely love the piano intro to "Locomotive Breath"...but it can never touch Wayne Newtons "Danka Sheine" now that rocked

  • NHSenior Legend 387 posts since
    Nov 23, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,610. Feb 22, 2008 1:41 PM (in response to parkerand susan)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    <<<<<I guess when you say runners are prisoners, that they have no rights,

     

     

     

     

     

    There you go, a perfect example of being bamboozled by the disingenuous spin of one of your own, "sgray".

     

     

    I never said that.  "sgray" took something out of context (as he did more often than not) and tried the emotional blackmail of the word "prisoner". You bought it as gospel, and you were suckered into listening to your groups ya da ya da ya da sound bytes. "Prisoner with no rights" got said so much you even believe that's what was said. Or you are lying again. No surprise there.

     

     

    I think you will find that I said "The inmates will not rule the ASYLUM".  Shall I teach you how to read.

     

     

    There is an important distinction in the reference. While "inmate" might have been used in reference to a prison, that was not the use by me anywhere.  Inmates in an asylum generally don't have the mental capacity to understand their local world and the greater world quite often.

     

     

    You guys don't seem to display the mental capacity to understand or get an inkling that given 10,000 races a year that many of the RDs would probably have thought of most or many or all of the silly low level suggestions or fixes you guys come up with like they are ever so insightful. God, how naive.

     

     

    My arrogance was nothing more than "shooting" back at the arrogance of invaders in kind, or not so kind depending on how you spin your webs.

     

     

  • Runner Chick'en Pro 145 posts since
    Jan 24, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,611. Feb 22, 2008 1:42 PM (in response to NHSenior)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    If only the majority of what you said had even an ounce of truth to it!  You are right about something, the running world has existed long before I got off my duff as you so eloquently put it and it will be around long after you can no longer get off yours.  I knew nothing about running when I first started but I learned what I needed to know and mostly, I learned from people like yourself, who have been running before I was even born.  The difference between those people and you though is that they respected me as a runner, as someone who might be new to the sport but as a runner nonetheless.  Even those who did not believe in Ipods and the like, respected my choice to use one, as getting out there and running was the most important thing, above all else.  I admit, I still am learning about this sport of which I love so much and I am never afraid to ask a question or ask for advice from those that are well versed in the sport of running.  And that is what I find to be such a shame, that if you could set aside your nastiness, you could be such a source and if you opened yourself up a bit, you just might find that others (even newbies to the sport) have much to share.  Yes NH, even you, still have much to learn and not just about running but about a good many things!

     

     

  • Runner Chick'en Pro 145 posts since
    Jan 24, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,612. Feb 22, 2008 1:50 PM (in response to parkerand susan)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    Sorry Parks...bad Runner Chick'en....bad....bad....bad!

     

     

     

     

     

    It is a shame but there are people in this world who need stress and strife in their lives. I may not have the experience that NH has but I am a runner through and through, with or without an Ipod. And the NH's of the world are just going to have to get used to that cause this sister ain't goin nowhere   I am here to stay and here to run and when I feel that something isn't right, I have a responsibility to stand up and make myself heard, regardless of whether the people I am speaking to want to hear me or not.  I am woman, hear me roar.  Now lets go burn some bras or something 

  • NHSenior Legend 387 posts since
    Nov 23, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,613. Feb 22, 2008 2:22 PM (in response to NHSenior)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    Here are some more comments and it is ALL comments since my last listing of comments. The only editing I did was put in where someone was from if they didn't put in a reference themselves.

     

    Notice that "closed" to many people does NOT mean the whole ROAD is closed. If cars are on the same road, the course is NOT closed relative to being safe.

     

    Runners, whether they have headphones on or not will go outside of the coned lanes to pass when people in front of them will not yield. This is why "I've" said the sport exists in most races on the concept of "yield". You folks would be unwelcome in most races with your "screw the guy behind you" attitude you so proudly mentioned. Again, you show your lack of understand where you are and how you are supposed to act, and it is NOT winning you friends as I've said.

     

     

     

     

     

    While you might say the RD shouldn't worry about stupid people who run outside the lanes. The RDs have to worry because if someone gets hit, the existance of race is immediatly in jeapardy. The easiest way for the town fathers to deal with such things is to say, "no more race".

     

     

    ============================================

    Dayton, Ohio area here.

     

    I'd say a high percentage of the races I run are open road courses, but in conjunction with that, I do a lot of small-town races where they don't have heavy traffic to begin with.

     

     

    ===============================================

    Only Columbus Marathon and Columbus Half (April) roads were closed. All others roads were open. Two were run on bike pathes.

     

    Son did a 5miler and said he would never do it again, due to the traffic (road open and not coned).

     

     

    ==============================================

    Eye opener for me. Not only do youse guys run in 50 below, but you race on open roads? I guess I should count my blessings!

    Cheers,

    Billy

     

     

    ======================================

    Atlanta area. Pretty evenly mixed. We usually get a lane blocked off. Roads are almost never completely closed, and slightly more often are they completely open.

     

     

    ======================================

    I'm in CT - every race that I've run - with the exception of the New Jersey and Philly Marathons - has been run on an open course.

     

     

    ===============================

    It's been ages since I've run anything less than a marathon, I'll have to comment on them.

     

    Here in the PNW (Edited by NHSenior: Pacific NorthWest) there are lots of small marathons: more than 50 between WA and OR. Almost all are on open courses, the exceptions being Portland, Seattle, Royal Vic, and Yakima River Canyon. There are at least as many that are hybrids, either closed for the first few miles and then with managed traffic, or on pavement that is for non-vehicle use (like a bike path.)

     

    One of the hazards of open courses around here is that very often you must run on one shoulder of a crowned road. Going for hours on a surface that is slanted in one direction can cause injury, esp ITBS. On a closed course you could just run in the middle of the road

  • parkerand susan Legend 363 posts since
    Oct 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,614. Feb 23, 2008 5:21 AM (in response to NHSenior)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    You are one twisted senior sister..why do we bother with you..you're a sick joke...go find Maryt and Phatty Patty..they're the only two grey panthers left to suffer your antisocial diatribes against anyone not 100 yrs old..chronologically but mental

     

     

    ..If you would like for fun I will paste a few of your shining moments and examine each one...I don't think you would like that.. What you said was runners who disagree with your nutso rantings are "inmates in an asylum.".. and as to "invaders" you demented crab apple...you aint seen noth'en yet...

     

     

  • parkerand susan Legend 363 posts since
    Oct 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,615. Feb 23, 2008 5:44 AM (in response to Runner Chick'en)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    Heh Jay.. and interested parties..this is an email from Grandma....Although my email contained several specific questions..one being had there ever been an accident during the race attributed to ipod use..I got this name rank and serial number...so I presume no accidents at Grandma's because I'm sure they would love to site one... and of course Fred Finke of the USATF says it's the RD's decision..not a dictate from the USATF..just encouraged

     

     

    Thank you for your e-mail. We appreciate your inquiry regarding the USA Track & Field (USATF) rule prohibiting headphones. As you likely are aware, our races are sanctioned by USATF and we are required to abide by USATF rules and regulations. In late 2006, USATF approved a ban on all portable music devices at all of its sanctioned road races in an effort to provide increased safety for race participants. So in accordance with USATF rules, we began enforcing this new rule at our 2007 races and will continue to do so this year.

     

     

    In addition, our organization fully supports USATF's decision to ban all portable music devices as racecourse safety is our paramount concern. We believe the elimination of headphone use is a positive safety measure effectively helping to protect all participants.

     

     

    I hope this information is helpful. Again, thanks for your e-mail and interest.

     

     

     

     

     

    Bob Gustafson

     

     

    Grandma's Marathon

     

     

    Public Relations Director

     

     

    P.O. Box 16234

     

     

    Duluth, MN  55816

     

     

    Phone (218) 727-0947

     

     

    Fax (218) 727-7932

     

     

    http://www.grandmasmarathon.com/

     

     

  • WayneD Expert 59 posts since
    Sep 5, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,616. Feb 23, 2008 7:43 AM (in response to parkerand susan)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    Maybe you should email Bob (Grandma's) Fred's (USATF) reply!

     

     

     

     

     

    WayneD

     

     

  • RKHII83 Pro 166 posts since
    Oct 1, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,617. Feb 23, 2008 8:56 AM (in response to parkerand susan)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    Hey Parker -

     

     

    I see you and the gang are still mixing it up with the thread's "Resident Evil"

     

     

    I have chosen the following approach - "Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty but the pig likes it."

     

     

    Have you noticed that the length of NH's posts are inversely proportional to the credibility, civility and worth of any and all content, therein contained?

     

     

    I must confess, I look forward to my daily dose of humor reading his ditherings.  Good call on the Unabomber Manifesto comp, but Kaczynski should probably feel insulted.

     

     

    "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I am a Road King, blah, blah, blah, blah, all other RDs bow down before me for you know nothing, blah, blah, blah, blah"

     

     

  • Jay Silvio We're Not Worthy 1,775 posts since
    Jul 9, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,618. Feb 23, 2008 11:14 AM (in response to parkerand susan)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    Hey, it's good to see you received the exact same form email that I did (I posted it a few days back in reply 1,536).  I don't have a problem with some of these well known races banning iPods since headphones are currently against the USATF rules of competition and there are elite runners participating with legitimate shots at record times.  It would be nice if they could provide some way to illustrate how banning headphones protects all participants enough to outweigh the benefits they provide runners who choose to wear them.

  • parkerand susan Legend 363 posts since
    Oct 17, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1,619. Feb 23, 2008 1:56 PM (in response to RKHII83)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    NH reminds me of Mencken's definition of Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

     

     

    Find my compilation of famous NH Twitazisems and Batman's wry observations..and you know I am not making this @#$# up....

     

     

    <<Again, not seeing something doesn't mean it wasn't and isn't there.>> "* * 1.NH has reached rock bottom and has started to dig.

     

     

    <<You can not, short of hearing about a major incident after the event, know that happened in many minor incidents ahead or behind you. >>

     

     

    2. I would not allow NH to breed.

     

     

    *<<So I'm a know it all. Thank you.>> <<I'd smack that **** Dr Benjamin Spock if I could for selling all those parents on the permissiveness BS that he in later life admitted was one of worst ideas someone who should know better ever came up with. It created a generation of people who don't like being denied things that effect others. They just don't get it. There is no such thing a priviledges with these folks, everything an entitlement.>>

    3. NH has delusions of adequacy.

     

     

    <<The only good thing about the ipod is that it has and does get more people off the couch. >><<Sure, the ipod has made it possible from many people to run that might not have run otherwise". >>* **

     

    *4. NH is depriving a village some where of an 'idiot'.

     

     

    << this issue isn't a democracy. Employees of a company don't tell the company what rules they will follow. Likewise the customers of company don't tell the company what they will sell and what the terms will be. >> <<There are very few on this planet that could concentrate with that much sensory overload. All those are forms of distraction, and by virtue of their existance, if you hear them they can interrupted this concentration you say you have, or you somehow ignore them which isn't good either. The human body and brain doesn't work in all directions at once. What it boils down to is that you have to be full of it or "the" most unusual person on the planet. >>

    5. NH sets low personal standards, and then consistently fails to achieve them.

     

     

    <<You solve it By getting in the face of anyone who is on an "It's all about ME" trip. These rule breaking jerks survive because of two reasons, one I suppose I can excuse, the other I can not excuse.

     

     

    1) The jerks survive because we all let them survive, few people will call them on it in public. I'm not so timid. It can be at a race, at the supermarket, the bank, anywhere. I make it a point to make sure those around us are made aware of what the jerks are doing at the moment. It can be as simple as cutting a line or doing something noisy or something that is holding up some process that others are waiting for. I can see people being timid about doing this but I can't imagine going through life as a someone who lives in fear of others. If you are not part of the solution your are part of the problem.

     

     

    2) How often have you seen some jerk do something and when someone says something, some other idiot jumps all over the person that says something because they "were not being kind". The jerks are counting on your SILENCE about them and having you distract the issue by shooting the messengers.>>

     

     

    6. NH has a 'full six-pack' but lacks the plastic thing to hold it all together.

     

     

    "You don't want to run with those that don't want you do you?  +What is it about "no soup for you' that you don't understand. +"

     

     

    7. NH has been working with glue too much.

     

     

    "There are more marbles in this game that have nothing to do with pleasing the runners. +It's not a democracy. +"

     

     

    8. When NH's IQ reaches 50, he should sell.

     

    *

    <<There are very few on this planet that could concentrate with that much sensory overload. All those are forms of distraction, and by virtue of their existance, if you hear them they can interrupted this concentration you say you have, or you somehow ignore them which isn't good either. The human body and brain doesn't work in all directions at once. What it boils down to is that you have to be full of it or "the" most unusual person on the planet.

     

     

    In at least 4 different messages I stated very clearly that I own an ipod, I run with an ipod on little used bike path in rural town and I freely admitted more than a few times that the Ipod is great to run with and that I can run much faster for much longer with special group of "back beat" heavy songs that I created a mix for. I have never disputed that. >>

     

    *

    9. The gates are down, the lights are flashing, but the train isn't coming.

     

     

    *<<There is no question I want the ultimate demise of the ipod relative to races, I want the ipod dead in races. Please note I do not want ipoders dead or injured. >>

    <strong</p>

    10. If NH were any more dumb, he'd have to be watered twice a week.

     

     

    &lt;&lt;I do not want the safety implications, nor do I want to stay the extra 2 to 4 hours required to babysit those that have arrived at the rapidly growning tail end of races. Maybe I "might" not mind the longer stay as much if the players involved didn't cause an added and so previlent safety issue. Add to that the highly unlikable attitude of the rule breakers that have arrived on the scene.&gt;&gt;

     

     

    11. It's impossible to believe the sperm that created NH beat out 1,000,000 smarter ones.

     

     

    *"This has been helpful! I am the RD of the Surfside Beach Marathon, in Surfside Beach Texas. We *+have ALWAYS allowed headsets, and I had never given a second thought to</em<br />+it. Reading your opinions, we will continue to allow them. I have been</em<br />+at events twice (not ours) when people have died - but they were heart</em<br />+attacks and dehydration, nobody from music. That will continue to be</em<br />*the least of our worries." <strong<strong>Well folks, you can certainly rely on "lahrunner" to be the leader you want to follow right into the gates of haddies. He/she will prudently research the important items you need to know. Presented to you will be a proclamation of relevance, sample size, and appropriateness of the venue to be indicative of the average race relative to conditions, and possible likelihood of hazards.* The surfside marathon is: (from the website) "limited to 500 total, for both the marathon and half. "

     

    *

    So here is what an RD needs to take care of, and race doesn't happen if an item higher on the goes away. NOTHING below means anything if a top items

     

     

    The city or town of race*

     

     

    INSURANCE (and there only two sources on the planet)*

     

     

    A major sponsor or many sponsors (and they are less fickle than you runners want

     

     

    Volunteers (and the length of time volunteers now have to hang around for the slow pokes (that's not an insult, its a fact, they are slow) is getting to be an issue. B

     

     

    A race manager who knows what the

     

     

    Runners (and notice they are in last place)

     

    *

    12. His wheels are turning, but the hamster is definitely dead.

     

    *

    &lt;&lt;What I really like is the pending idea (and I'm sure you just got to know I love this one). The waiver will say that if you are photographed wearing an ipod, your registration credit card will be charged a whopping additional charge. Many sellout races are online only so there is no ducking it. If you canceli the card, the waiver wording will give the event all they need to persue you as bad debt person and the race will put a bad debt hound on you and you will end paying the costs. Think they won't. Look If they are going to tug on superman's cape and establish the charge then are not going to worry about that the offender will get mad. The want the offender to get roaring mad and get really mad at the person they see in the mirror for getthing themselves into it all in first place.

     

     

    And you will not only be banned from that event but some RDs are talking about forming a pool banned runner list. I like this one too, Some have suggested putting names a offending pictures up on website. Most waivers state all the race information and pictures can be used for any lawful purpose.

     

     

    The USATF is not a race's boss and as a matter for fact, some of them think it is a pretty solid idea. It is no different than the charges that a credit card company and bank charge you for violating their rules. Paying late, bouncing checks, etc. You agree ahead of time with them what your penalty will be.

     

     

    What I said was the inmates cannot be allowed to run the asylum, meaning those who display whacko thinking don't get to set rules. and to believe that is to demean the efforts of those put in the volunteer time to attempt the management. &lt;&lt;I think the under 30 folks are going to be rather surprized at the outcome. There are many under 30 who won't be surprized because they really do know the score but, like I was and every other generation was, they are just being jerks about it because that is what youth does. Unfortunately, some youth do things that haunts them all the rest of their lives. Perhaps having races share their banned lists to exclude runners forever would be a good example of the cost of youthful rebeliousness. Imagine trying to get off a banned &gt;&gt;

     

    *

    If this was as simply as those with a npro-ipod agenda make it sound, it would have been solved before it started. NOBODY, I repeat NOBODY connected with a race wants this grief. They can not choose to ignore the legal ramifications just because a bunch of "mostly" johnny-come-lately to running folks have a bee in their bonnet about being denied something they want. I know the darn ipod helps a whole group of people run better than they could without it, but that does not trump the other realities of the issue.

     

     

    I'd smack that **** Dr Benjamin Spock if I could for selling all those parents on the permissiveness BS that he in later life admitted was one of worst ideas someone who should know better ever came up with. It created a generation of people who don't like being denied things that effect others. They just don't get it. There is no such thing a priviledges with these folks, everything an entitlement.

     

     

    And last.. but not least.. these priceless gems of reason and intelligence..after you read these I think it is safe to declare the winner of the 2008 A.H. awards as NHSENIOR!!..A kindly compassionate Humanitarian... _Truly _no one deserves the award more than he..for he truly is Always Helpful...

     

     

    &lt;&lt;*Maryt

    Even yesterday, I had problems in a race myself (with asthma) and had to stop and try to catch my breath and get my breathing back under control. Headphone wearers passed by without so much as a glance. It was a headphone-free runner who stopped to see if I needed assistance. Not exactly related to +causing +problems, because their passing me by didn't cause anyone any problems, but I did note the difference in who was concerned about a fellow runner and offered assistance and who didn't notice. &gt;&gt;

     

     

    nh

     

     

    &lt;&lt;You solve it By getting in the face of anyone who is on an "It's all about ME" trip. These rule breaking jerks survive because of two reasons, one I suppose I can excuse, the other I can not excuse.

     

     

    1) The jerks survive because we all let them survive, few people will call them on it in public. I'm not so timid. It can be at a race, at the supermarket, the bank, anywhere. I make it a point to make sure those around us are made aware of what the jerks are doing at the moment. It can be as simple as cutting a line or doing something noisy or something that is holding up some process that others are waiting for. I can see people being timid about doing this but I can't imagine going through life as a someone who lives in fear of others. If you are not part of the solution your are part of the problem.

     

     

    2) How often have you seen some jerk do something and when someone says something, some other idiot jumps all over the person that says something because they "were not being kind". The jerks are counting on your SILENCE about them and having you distract the issue by shooting the messengers.

     

     

    Cure this affliction and it will trickle down into running. I don't always stay under the speed limit, but unlike a number showoffs here in the forum I don't go around bragging about it or encouraging others with "rock on" "do you own thing" and other such incendiary rubbish. What is surprising is that these folks somehow expect to be treat with civility. When the Rock and Roll jogathons are the only races that many of you say you will go to because of getting shut out of the good races, if you think anyone can manage a good race after some critical mass number of runners, boy do you have horrible race experience coming. R & R will accomodate you because the are a for-profit set of races so they will accept numbers until they choke.

     

     

    Races are already excluding walkers because of the time issue.&gt;&gt;

     

    *

     

    *

     

     

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