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4 Replies Last post: Feb 26, 2008 3:43 PM by formationflier  
Click to view audly's profile Rookie 2 posts since
Feb 25, 2008
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Feb 25, 2008 11:04 AM

Basebuilding/Maffetone Question


Hi,

I'm new to running and to this forum... I have a question about Maffetone that I'm hoping some of you folks around here can help me understand better. My main reason for reading the Maffetone method was because, while my fitness has been improving over the last few years, and more recently starting to run (albeit at slower paces than most of you - comfortable at a 12 min mile, with intervals between that and 10 min miles), I have had a lot of little aches & pains that never really seem to go away (shoulder, foot, now my knee... none of which were actually caused by fitness activities... for example, my brother's dog slammed into my leg and caused my knee to hyperextend at xmas, and here we are 2 months later and it still hurts slightly when I bend it... doesn't bother me while running or most other activities but when I bend it it pinches) and although I've lost 60 pounds over the last few years, the progress has been slow (mainly b/c I'm inconsistent with my diet), and I still have about 35 pounds to lose mostly around the mid-section.

I HAVE progressed from walking to running and running faster and feeling strong and good. I do weight lifting and step aerobics as well, and have progressed in both of those activities as well. I can do more, and feel stronger and definitely feel my cardiovascular fitness has improved a lot. I feel great after a good hard workout. That for me means I pushed myself to go faster or to squat deeper or lift heavier or jump higher... at least for part of the workout.

Today I tried a LHR workout on the treadmill and the elliptical. I was only able to go 4mph at a 2.0 incline (no incline had my HR too low, but I can't walk faster than that without breaking into a jog and it causes my HR to go too high). I was sweating slightly, but cool to the touch. I was not breathing heavy in the least. It felt like a warmup, not a workout. And it was BORING.

My main goal is not so much speed or duration, it's weight loss, plain and simple. According to Maffetone, maybe I have been doing too much anaerobic training and causing my body to burn sugar instead of fat. But I am so discouraged if THAT is all I can do for a workout with this method, I will not last. It is too boring, I feel unchallenged, and it feels like a complete and utter waste of time.

My question is this: How do I know for sure that I didn't already build a good aerobic base throughout the last 3 years? And at what point do you say "ok I have the base, now I can push it again." ??? I really dont' want to spend 3 months following this method only to waste my time and be bored and discouraged.

I know you all are really more focused on running and performance, but I can't find any other place where people seem to be educated on this method or concept, so I'm hoping some of you can help me understand (and really hoping some of you can tell me I DO have a good aerobic base and to forget this approach).

Thanks in advance,

Audrey

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Click to view billycat's profile Rookie 5 posts since
Jan 17, 2008
1. Feb 26, 2008 6:12 AM in response to: audly
Re: Basebuilding/Maffetone Question
MAffetone's fgures are a bit arbitrary - 180 - your age. So it might not be right for you as an individual. That's point 1. 2 Maffetone's successful athletes all had years of hard, hard training under them, so when they switched - like Pigg - they were already fast. 3 maffetone calls anything above his MAF pace anaerobic. This is ridiculous scaremongering. Anerobic is fine, burning sugar sometimes is fine, and anyway when you are traing at your MAF, your are burning fat and sugar. 4. You have to eat a fairly rigourously controlled diet for pure aerobic work to induce weight loss - no sugar, lots of good fats. 5 You have to put in a lot of volume at MAF to lose weight because the overall calorie use is low. If you are not running high-vol, eating low-suagr and small portions - all of which are fairly difficult to maintain - you are unlikely to lose weight. 6. When you stick to the MAF the absolute amount of fat you burn is small, even though it is in realtively high proprtion to glycogen usage. Eg you might burn 80% fat, 20% glycgen, but be burning say 200 Kcal for a 30 min aerobic run (160 kcals burnt as fat); were you to run hard intervals for 30 mins your total calorie use might shoot up to 350kcal, 50% burnt as fat, total fat burn 175 kcal. These numbers are very rough :-) but correct ballpark. So, if you want to lose weight, what use is a base? A bas eis for basing performance on. if you want to lose weight, and you like running, then mix up high intensity sprints, hills, tempo runs, fartlek runs - as well as slow runs when you need to. The harder you run, the more weight you will lose - make sure your diet is correct - as little sugar as possibel, plenty of veg and fruit, and quality protein etc. I've found some intersting stuff on this blog, this piece has stuff which may interest you http://www.runflux.com/blog/2008/02/11/ten-rules-of-running-you-can-break-part-2/ and there is stuff on nutrition too, a bit anti-carbs and useful to me so far.
Click to view Ewart_Harris's profile Legend 323 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
3. Feb 26, 2008 12:04 PM in response to: audly
Re: Basebuilding/Maffetone Question
Audly,
Quick response here. IMO exercise is highly overrated as a method of loosing weight. Diet is far more a determining factor in weight loss and maintenance. Exercise of course does provide a myriad of health benefits and does help in weight loss.

With respect to Maffetone and LHR I do have so knowledge here but I am going to suggest that you go over to Runningahead.com and look up the Low HR Training group. The person who carries that thread has the screen name formationflier. His name is Jesse and he does wonder over to this board some times. He draws together a lot of information on this and use to post on the old CR board. There are also many posters there who would be willing to share ideas with you.

Here is a link to the old thread. You can try this out before going over to runningahead.
http://community.active.com/thread/20939?start=0&tstart=0
Read through the intro and then read the Low HR training and the FAQ. There are links at the bottom and articles you can read. That should give you a start
Click to view formationflier's profile Legend 989 posts since
Oct 13, 2007
4. Feb 26, 2008 3:43 PM in response to: Ewart_Harris
Re: Basebuilding/Maffetone Question
Ewart pointed you to the right place if you want to get the opinions of literally hundreds of people that are using Maffetone's (and similar) approaches. Indeed if you look through the FAQ it will help to identify whether it's the right approach for you, which I certainly can't answer for you. When you mentioned that your heart rate was too low when you were at 0 incline, I didn't quite understand that. There really is no lower limit as long as you are actually running - I frequently run at 20 or 30 beats below the MAF heart rate and I have a very high max heart rate (210). I started out at a 17 minute mile at MAF heart rate and couldn't break a 4 hour marathon. With only sub-MAF running, other than races, my MAF pace improved to 7:30/mile (after 8 months with no racing or faster paced running), my marathon improved by about an hour, my 50 mile time improved by over 2 hours, and all of my shorter distance races improved tremendously as well.