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9 Replies Last post: Mar 10, 2008 2:22 PM by Ewart_Harris  
Click to view stlken37's profile Rookie 1 posts since
Mar 4, 2008
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Mar 4, 2008 7:13 PM

Help - I'm putting ON weight (burning less cals)!?


Help. I'm a 39 year old male and I've been putting on weight lately despite the same caloric intake and mileage (the answer is that I'm burning less cals per run).

A few years ago, I increased my weekly mileage to about 21 mpw and lost about 25 pounds over 6 to 8 months, going from 220 to 195lbs (I'm 6') and felt great! I'd run, and walk a little, about six miles in just over an hour and burn about 1,000 cals. Recently, I'm still running the same mileage, 6+ miles three times a week, and I've put on about 4 to 5 pounds despite eating the same quantity/quality. Now, instead of burning a 1000 cals, I'm only burning about 650 for the same miles (e.g. last Sunday I ran 8.8 miles in about 1:26 and burned only about 950 cals). I suppose burning fewer calories this is the result of getting in better shape.

However, in order to maintain the same level of cals per week or weight, should I increase my mileage of one or more of my runs, add a run, slow my pace down so I'm my heart rate is lower (and burning more fat) or something else?

'Just wondering - thanks,

Ken

Click to view figbash's profile Legend 617 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
1. Mar 5, 2008 4:49 PM in response to: stlken37
Re: Help - I'm putting ON weight (burning less cals)!?

The only thing that affects the number of calories you burn on a run is your current weight and how many miles you run. Your conditioning has nothing to do with the number of calories you burn, it's simply the amount of work you perform over a given amount of time. In the case of running, the work is the act of lifting your body weight with each step. The higher you lift it, or the sum total of all your steps over a given time, the more work you do and the more calories you burn. Speed also has little effect because the faster you run, the more miles you run in a given amount of time.

If you are running the same mileage as before and gaining weight then you are simply eating more than normal. It's extremely difficult to know just how many calories you consume. You would need to literally weigh everything you put in your mouth. If you pay attention you'll likely find some change in your diet. It doesn't take long for an extra helping here and there to add on a few pounds.

BTW, where are you coming up with the figures for the number of calories you burn on your runs?


Tom

Click to view milkbaby's profile Expert 36 posts since
Oct 23, 2007
2. Mar 5, 2008 6:12 PM in response to: stlken37
Re: Help - I'm putting ON weight (burning less cals)!?

I agree with Tom that as you lose weight, you will spend less energy per mile running simply because you don't need to do as much work as before (because the weight you have to move is less). However, unless you are hooked up to a machine to measure your oxygen intake and carbon dioxide output when you run, you can't really tell how many calories you are burning when running. Don't trust any numbers you get from a treadmill or heart rate monitor because those are based on standard charts based on average energy expenditure from various studies.

The most likely scenario is that you are probably taking in slightly more calories than before. If you ate just one scoop of ice cream a day more than you used to, that would be about 350 excess calories. After 10 days that would be about one pound more of body weight. The same is true if you ate one more big cookie per day or drank about one 20 ounce soda extra per day than before. Unless you are crazy about portioning (weighing your dinner or counting your potato chips, I actually do count out my potato chips before eating...), it is easy to end up eating just a little more than before, and before you know it you also weigh more.

You can run more, but you can swing the balance more if you are more careful about eating. That doesn't mean you have to be a food nazi and/or weigh all your food, but you can simply make some substitutions that are more nutritious and filling but less calorie dense. Instead of a cookie, choose an apple sometimes. Instead of soda, substitute water now and then.

Another factor is that typically after 30 years old, we start to lose around 1% of our muscle mass per year if you don't try to maintain it. Muscle mass requires calories for maintenance, thus as you lose it, you require less calories. That is partially why it's easier to put on weight as we get older, since we don't need as many calories to maintain our bodies but we usually eat the same amount as always.

On a side note, I disagree with Tom about burning the same number of calories per mile as you become a better runner. As you get more running fit, you will become more economical and burn less calories per mile. If you read Physiology of Sport and Exercise (Wilmore, Costill, and Kenney, Human Kinetics, 2008), on page 111:

http://books.google.com/books?id=zQGKmbg18J8C&printsec=frontcover#PPA111,M1

As people become more skillful at performing an exercise, the energy demands during exercise at a given pace are reduced. In a sense, people become more economical.

However, the difference in the calories burned by running before you were fit and after you became more fit is a much smaller factor than your food intake. At 18 miles per week, if you got so economical that you burned 10 calories less per mile, that is still only 180 calories less than before. That's only 3 Oreo cookies worth of calories less than before. And it would take about 20 days until you added one pound of body weight because of the difference in caloric expenditure!

Click to view figbash's profile Legend 617 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
3. Mar 5, 2008 9:40 PM in response to: milkbaby
Re: Help - I'm putting ON weight (burning less cals)!?

Milkbaby: If you look at the first sentence in the article, it states that as people become more skillful at performing an exercise they become more efficient. In the case of a runner skillful just means that they are wasting less energy by making sure that all of their movement contributes to forward motion and they reduce movement that wastes energy such as side to side arm swing and bounce. It's not their fitness that is making them more efficient, it is their skill. In that respect it is possible to become more efficient at running but only from a reduction of wasted energy, not from an increase in fitness. Improved fitness allows you to run faster with the same amont of effort but that still amounts to roughly the same calorie expediture per mile.


Tom

Click to view jdhumor's profile Rookie 2 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
4. Mar 7, 2008 8:52 AM in response to: figbash
Re: Help - I'm putting ON weight (burning less cals)!?

Thanks for the input and information. I probably have been eating more or, at least, not as vigilant about what I ate when I lost that weight. Also, I've been using a Polar HRM to measure the number of cals I burn per run. Are HRMs generally not reliable or just give you a ballpark figure in measuring cals burned?


Thanks again,

Ken

Click to view milkbaby's profile Expert 36 posts since
Oct 23, 2007
5. Mar 7, 2008 2:09 PM in response to: jdhumor
Re: Help - I'm putting ON weight (burning less cals)!?

The calories burned readout on the Polar monitor and on cardio machines are based solely on your weight (and maybe age, not sure) and standard tables of how many calories are burned by the average person. You can't rely on them for accurate information, just a general idea.

Sometimes a 3 to 5 pound swing in weight isn't a big deal but just due to hydration status. Try to weigh yourself at the same time every morning after you wake up and pee (if you typically have to pee after you wake up). Then keep track of this every day for a few weeks and you will have a baseline and/or trend that you can watch and measure any changes against. I'm guessing if you are female it is possible for it to go up and down with your monthly cycle.

Click to view Ewart_Harris's profile Legend 322 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
6. Mar 10, 2008 9:36 AM in response to: stlken37
Re: Help - I'm putting ON weight (burning less cals)!?

Stlken37

Sorry for highjacking your post.

Milkbaby and figbash it is wonderful that you guys should stop by and contribute on this page. I have been meaning to respond to this post but I was busy. The information that you both gave is great and I am sure that many viewers here appreciate it. I really miss all the folks like you guys from the old CR days.

Stlken

I would second the arguement about following the reading from a T/mill or your HR monitor. I use to get very high numbers like 3500 calories when I went on a 20+ mile run from my Garmin that would be 1lb in body weight. I knew this was way off because if I came close to eating even half that amount in additionally calories I would gain weight. I think I read that conventional wisdom put it at approximately 100 calories for each mile you run irrespective of speed. However, I am leaning to think that even this number is high based on my personal experience.

Click to view Nobby063's profile Legend 630 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
7. Mar 10, 2008 11:08 AM in response to: Ewart_Harris
Re: Help - I'm putting ON weight (burning less cals)!?

Ewart Harris wrote:
Stlken37

Sorry for highjacking your post.

Milkbaby and figbash it is wonderful that you guys should stop by and contribute on this page. I have been meaning to respond to this post but I was busy. The information that you both gave is great and I am sure that many viewers here appreciate it. I really miss all the folks like you guys from the old CR days.


Came to this board first time for quite some time and saw Ewart's name here. It's really sad to see the thread like "4 days ago" or "1 week ago" but I know Ewart is really sticking it out and I repect him for that so here I am!

In most cases, running is not a math equasion. I know some people just LOVE to calculate things or take a look at ONE study and come to some "Absolute Truth" conclusion (you know who I'm talking about! ;o)), but things really intermingle in the business of running.

Take, for example, you claim that you're getting the same amount of calories. How did you measure those calories? You didn't really take some small sample from each food and measure the calories??? I mean, depending on a lot of factors, I will bet a piece of potatoe has some variation in calories. Is a piece of bread the same calory-wise from brand to brand? Would it change if you toast it? And how about your metabolism? After some time of running and getting in shape, is your metabolism perhaps better than before that you actually consume more energy from the same amount of food? Maybe a small difference; but it could add up. Plus, after several months of running, I will bet that you are much more efficient at running. In other words, if you're doing the same old, same old; then chances are; you're not burning as much calories as you were 6 months ago.

A lot of factors come in to play; in my case, I don't really worry about those things because there are just so many variables. Now, IF your goal is to lose weight; then you should think about something else to achieve that. One of the easiest ways is to include cross training--do other exercise. One of the reasons why doing cross training initially improve your VO2Max than just plain running is because you're not efficient at it. In other words, you're wasting a lot of energy doing those "other" activities that you actually burn more calories and work on your aerobic capacity....until you get more efficient at them again.

Another simple solution would be to increase the intensity (now that you're more efficient at running X effort). In fact, you should be increasing the effort as your over all fitness improves anyways. You CAN increase the duratioin of your run as well.

At any rate; you say you're doing exactly the same workout and you're eating exactly the same amount of calories; but sometimes (or I should say, "quite often") the equasions really don't work out that way.

Now, I'm sorry, I haven't read everything other posters have contributed; so if I'm just saying the duplicate, I apologize.

Click to view AKTrail's profile Legend 360 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
8. Mar 10, 2008 1:44 PM in response to: stlken37
Re: Help - I'm putting ON weight (burning less cals)!?
For clarification, if you're getting the calorie number from a personal
Polar hrm (not the ones on the machines), I believe those numbers are
based on your recorded weight, heartrate (measure of intensity),
duration, and maybe some other stuff like max hr (you might enter it or
it might be calculated from age-based formula). Distance doesn't play a
role since it doesn't know how far you ran. Intensity definitely does
play a role, since I use it during my xt class where we don't go very
far. I may log the number as a measure of volume combining intensity
and duration, but don't really use it. (it's downloaded automatically)

A general rule of thumb is that a 150-lb person running 1 mi on flat, firm terrain in calm conditions burns about
100 cal/mi. (I've seen a forumula somewhere with several factors in
it.) If you're heavier, you'll burn more. If there's uphill, wind,
snow, whatever to increase your effort, you'll burn more per time
spent. I also think (not sure) if it's colder (say 0F vs 50F),
you may burn more as a result of your resting metabolism being greater
in colder temperatures, which is a function of your time outdoors. I
know resting metabolism is higher in cold temps, but I'm not sure if
there's any additional factor in exercise in cold weather - other than
having more clothes on, friction, snow, etc. Also not sure if the
insulatiing clothes reduce the effect of cold - probably do.

As already mentioned, as you get better at running, your heart rate
probably decreases for the same perceived effort or you go faster. This
may result in fewer calories burned for the same distance, but it might
be minor.

You might want to consider increasing the duration of your runs or
other exercise (either individually or total volume) with the same
intensity. While the % of fat burned is greater at lower intensities,
the total amt of fat burned can be greater at higher efforts, so I'm
not sure running at lower effort is beneficial unless it enables you to
run longer.

(As I wrote this, I couldn't remember whether you indicated you were
indoors or outdoors, so whether you were using a machine hrm on a tm.
This format doesn't allow me to see followup posts.)


PS: An interesting article on energy expenditure during running is here - with field experiments, not just lab: http://www.jssm.org/vol5/n4/29/v5n4-29text.php (sorry, my examples always seem to be trail or longer distances, but that's where my fascination is)

For steeper slopes: http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/93/3/1039

I haven't been able to re-find the website with the formula using weight, slope, wind, etc.


Also, in case it wasn't obvious in my original comments - the calorie indicators on the hrms are approximations, but I have no idea whether they truly relate to calories burned (doubt it) or whether they're just a composite estimate of volume combining time and intensity.

Message was edited by: AKTrail

Click to view Ewart_Harris's profile Legend 322 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
9. Mar 10, 2008 2:22 PM in response to: Nobby063
Re: Help - I'm putting ON weight (burning less cals)!?

Hey Nobby

Great to here from you. If you see some one posting as runners bliss at running ahead its me. I also checked out the Lydiard Foundation site. Have not signed up because I am too cheap but I do read the comments their most days. Still giving this site a shot but as you can see it is tough as ****. Milkbaby and figbash do drop by sometimes also.