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Click to view RKHII83's profile Pro 166 posts since
Oct 1, 2007
1,710. Mar 9, 2008 1:30 PM in response to: parkerand susan

parker -

Never tried to sell Jer Bear as a bluesman. But I honestly can't think of anyone who was as lyrical and melodic with an axe in freeform jam as he was with the possible exception of David Gilmour.

And IMO, Pigpen was the heart and soul of the best bluesy jamming the Dead ever did, not Garcia.

It will be good to get back on the road this week - Friday's 5K was horrendous.

Off to help my daughter clean her car.

Click to view Runner Chick'en's profile Pro 142 posts since
Jan 24, 2008
1,711. Mar 9, 2008 2:20 PM in response to: RKHII83

That is a great time RK, congrats. I know it has been awhile but getting back out there is worth every bit of pain. I have a 5K coming up on Saturday, first one in a few months, and am looking forward to it. I am hoping for anything faster then 24:59 but the weather will play a huge part in that goal :) You rock RK!


Click to view parkerand susan's profile Legend 357 posts since
Oct 17, 2007
1,712. Mar 9, 2008 3:59 PM in response to: Runner Chick'en

I'm a sucker for inspirational stories..this is one from a local runner in my city ...Rich Lomas.. I see him at every race..at the start and much later at the finish..(in 5Ks having made the turn he's always good for breaking my spirit as he smokes by me already 3 or 4 mins ahead) ..In the recent marathon I Bike monitored, I rode my hybrid bike and had to s@#t and get it up the bridge just to keep up with him +on a bike!+) One point in my relaying this story is the attiude of amateur runners all puffed up about how zoned they are, how steel willed they are, how distractions are not allowed in their world of running...read this story about a true runner..who doesn't wear an ipod..but welcomes those that do..who understands the true spirit of running..who is looking to include his son..not exclude others..he inspire me every time I see him...

Rich ran cross country in high school..always hoped his father would come and watch him..but his father never came...his parents divorcing early in his life..He was raised by his Aunt and Grandmother in San Angelo Texas. He promised himself that if he ever had a son he would always be there for him. His son would be a runner too. In 1994 he was blessed with a son Sam. Born premature @ 2pds with a rare genetic anomaly called 22q13 Deletion Syndrome. Only the eighth person in the world born with it. Sam is now 13 with severe limitations and the mentality of a 3yr old.

After high school Rich stopped running..got a job as a computer programmer and dedicated himself to a church and dealt with his challenges..he drank 8 Cokes a day and downed ice cream by the gallon. He was overweight and out of shape. About 8 years ago he attended the Falmouth seven mile race in Massachusetts and it changed his life. He ran across Dick and Rick Hoyt. Rick Hoyt was born in 1962 with cerebral palsy. Can't walk or talk. His father wanted him to know what it felt like to run, and he began to push him in races. Dick Hoyt has since pushed his son in more than 950 races, 6 Ironman Tri and 65 marathons, Boston amoung them. In the swimming portions of the tri's Rick sits in a boat while his father (67yrs old) swims and pulls him with a rope tied to his waist.

"You could just feel the love they had for each other" Rich Lomas said. "They built a connection through running". On Dec 31, 2005 Lomas set a goal, he wanted his son to experience a triathlon. On Jan 1,2006, at age 39 Lomas ran a couple of miles by his house. In May he finished The Oscar Shere State Park 5K in 21:32 ( I ran that race, couple of minutes behind Rich of course).4 months after he began running Lomas turned in a 16:03 at a %k race in Bradenton.Fl. The third fastest time in the state for his age group that year. Lomas wears a 22q13 T-shirt to races. Lomas' original goal was to push his son in a triathlon like Dick Hoyt, but that plan has been altered a little. "The way he was with his son, I want to be with my son" Lomas said. "Im just taking a little detour right now. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I'd be running a 16:03". He is now focused on going under the 16 minute mark in the 5K, and he knows the window of opportunity is closing fast on a man whose 41 years old. And if it doesn't happen it's OK with Rich. Lomas' long estranged father has returned to his life , and Rich plans on competing with his son in their first triathlon together in August.

Click to view parkerand susan's profile Legend 357 posts since
Oct 17, 2007
1,713. Mar 9, 2008 4:39 PM in response to: RKHII83

<<Never tried to sell Jer Bear as a bluesman. But I honestly can't think of anyone who was as lyrical and melodic with an axe in freeform jam as he was with the possible exception of David Gilmour.>>

Love the Rocky underdog role you give Jerry..but that sell is similar to selling NH on the benefits of proper grammer and logical thinking...it's a dead end sell from the first word. Not !happening !..Howling Wolf is howling with laughter on that one..

David Gilmour is in another league! ..on another world!!...in a far far universe!!!.....his "Marooned" at the 50th Anniversary of Fender Stratocaster is one of the seminal moments of guitar art...dumbfoundedly outrageously amazing!!! Please for the sake of civilized discourse never again use the name Jerry Garcia in the same sentence as David Gilmour..unless you are defining from the sublime to the ridiculous.

But I will discuss the Dead's tie with Dan Fogelburg..any knowledge of that Professor?

Click to view soldierboy's profile Rookie 6 posts since
Dec 28, 2007
1,714. Mar 9, 2008 5:01 PM in response to: RKHII83

It's not just for races. Any DOD post doesn't allow Ipods period. Only are allowed in the gym. There are many post that give you a ticket for wearing headphones outside. It's a DOD Policy.
Click to view parkerand susan's profile Legend 357 posts since
Oct 17, 2007
1,715. Mar 9, 2008 5:29 PM in response to: soldierboy

soldierboy...here's some unasked for advice...this particular thread has been rife in the past with half truths, personal opinions, made up ****..whole scenarios being formed by one incident..half baked theories.. and just generally whatever would fly for the moment untill someone busted them...

Now.. I'm sure you sincerely believe your generalities regarding ipods in races on Military facilties..sometimes you only know what you know...the problem is a review of those Military races shows that not the case ..

ex.

Joint Forces Training Base 11200 Lexington Dr. Los Alamitos, CA 90720
Los Alamitos, CA 90720

The 5K & 10K courses is located on the Joint Forces Training Base runways. Helicopters, planes and military vehicles will line portions of the course with music throughout the course. Separate 100% flat courses. Run next to strawberry fields and 3 golf courses.

That's just one of 20 it took me five minutes to find..none of the info. probihits ipods...I'm sure RK ..our resident retired Military expert will FIRMLY weigh in with many more...so my point is.. what you think.. and what is fact.. is sometimes a wide divide..so I would double check my facts and qualify your remarks before making broad statements that are easily proven false...this thread loves to hear runners stories and opposing ideas..just get your FACTS straight before you throw them into the ring...your experience is not everyones experience..don't confuse the two...otherwise.. welcome aboard the Team Ipod train..hope you like music and silliness..we got lots of that here....

Click to view RKHII83's profile Pro 166 posts since
Oct 1, 2007
1,716. Mar 9, 2008 6:23 PM in response to: soldierboy

Soldierboy -

Where do you get your facts?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news (or in this case the truth), but you are sadly misinformed. And the totality of your statement is dumbfounding. There is no DOD policy as to ipod (or any other headphone) use banning them from all bases. Any such decision would be left up to the Base CO - and every one of the ones I listed DO NOT BAN HEADPHONE USE during exercise.

Now I realize that I only served for 24 years and there is a non-zero chance that I may be wrong, but .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 is a pretty small chance.

So unless you can cite an instruction number (DODINST XXXX.XX dtd XXMonthXX) you better do some deeper research before you post again.

Click to view parkerand susan's profile Legend 357 posts since
Oct 17, 2007
1,717. Mar 9, 2008 7:47 PM in response to: WayneD

Heh Wayned and JacobBunner

Here's an interesting twist on the 2008 L.A. Marathon ( which I think Lahrunner participated in)..what's the running male perspective (Rk wears leggings so he doesn't represent males, but sure he likes the idea of headstarts these days) on allowing female runners a 20 minute headstart and declaring the female runner the winner when she finished 15 minutes behind the male...and what about the RD's remarks about women in the kitchen? Does this make racing more interesting..should non ipod runners start ahead of ipoders cause the have an "advantage" ? Only in L.A.?

<<The Los Angeles Marathon gimmicked Sunday's race to get a more thrilling finish. The 20-minute head start for women runners gave the victory and a six-figure bonus to the winner, the Russian woman who broke the tape.

Tatiana Aryasova's overall time was two hours, 29 minutes and 9 seconds, compared to Laban Moiben of Kenya's two hours, 13 minutes and 50 seconds.

The Marathon's co-founder and president, William Burke, was so wowed by Aryasova's performance that he marveled to Channel 4, "You can't keep those women down. You can't get them back in the kitchen."

So -- to answer my questions, the year must be 1950, and the town must be Stepford.

My colleague Helene Elliott reported that Burke offered "no smile or wink to indicate he was attempting to make a joke. Not even a forced chuckle." >>>

Click to view soldierboy's profile Rookie 6 posts since
Dec 28, 2007
1,718. Mar 9, 2008 7:50 PM in response to: RKHII83

I mean no disrespect, but I am a Reg. Junkey maybe it's cause I am a Human resources Specialist. I personaly understand why some people want to run with ipods and I don't have any problems with it. I was just stating facts. No matter what the race instructions say if your are on a military post this reg applies. It is a debatible issue. I can see both sides of the coin. If someone wants to listen to music while they run a race I don't see the harm. But then the people putting on the race don't want to be liable if someone gets hurt, because they don't do what their supposed to. As you requested.

Department of Defense

INSTRUCTION

NUMBER 6055.4

July 20, 1999

DUSD(ES)

SUBJECT: DoD Traffic Safety Program

6.6 Use of Headphones, Earphones. The wearing of portable headphones,

earphones, or other listening devices while operating a motor vehicle and while

jogging/running, bicycling or skating or skate boarding on roads and streets on DoD

installations is prohibited. Use of those devices impairs driving and masks or prevents

recognition of emergency signals, alarms, announcements, the approach of vehicles,

and human speech.

Click to view RKHII83's profile Pro 166 posts since
Oct 1, 2007
1,719. Mar 9, 2008 8:05 PM in response to: soldierboy

Soldier -

Thanks.

I will run this through my admin officer tomorrow and see if said instruction exists.

Click to view parkerand susan's profile Legend 357 posts since
Oct 17, 2007
1,720. Mar 9, 2008 8:07 PM in response to: soldierboy

Good job soldierboy..I like your style..I''ll let Rk espond to the DOD..

Actually it does matter very much what the race instructions say..that the reason runners are on the base in the first place...they were invited to pay money and run on the facility...base on advertised information....if the public is invited to an air show and the information says you can bring your cameras..and the base policy is no cameras..then the rule for that day is cameras...What is offered does apply...Military bases make their own rules...but when they invite civilians those rules can change...This is the same double speak we have dealt with here..There is also a vaguely worded directive from the USATF regarding headphones that most RD's promptly ignored..I have run in Military sponsered races on bases with an ipod and there was no restriction ever mentioned..most or all of the Military sponsered races I can find on the internet are the same...did you check out the races RK and I provided..if we are incorrect please advise..

Click to view soldierboy's profile Rookie 6 posts since
Dec 28, 2007
1,721. Mar 9, 2008 8:16 PM in response to: parkerand susan
RKHII83 if you can't find it google it! The DOD Instruction Number is there. It just depend on how hard they want to inforce policy on a post. I understand what your saying. But right now I am at Fort Meade and they inforce all policies. I know when I ran the Marine Corp Marathon it said no headphones, but many peolple used them anyway. I just wouldn't want to be in one of those cases where the race director inforced and i was disqualified. That would really suck. I think it's not far I do have my urges to listen to music every once in a while, but pretty much all the races I have ran the past year haven't allowed earphones. If it's a closed course I don't see why it would matter.
Click to view RKHII83's profile Pro 166 posts since
Oct 1, 2007
1,722. Mar 9, 2008 8:28 PM in response to: soldierboy

Soldier -

Did you deliberately only paint a part of the picture?

Straight from your provided instruction number..........

Para 6 : Procedures

The Heads of the Military Departments shall incorporate the following requirements into their traffic safety programs:

6.6 Use of Headphones, Earphones. The wearing of portable headphones, earphones, or other listening devices while operating a motor vehicle and while jogging/running, bicycling or skating or skate boarding on roads and streets on DoD installations is prohibited. Use of those devices impairs driving and masks or prevents recognition of emergency signals, alarms, announcements, the approach of vehicles, and human speech.

My emphasis added in red.

However, OPNAVINST 5100.12G 7 Feb 01, Paragraph 7.d. more clearly states that "....use of these devices on designated bicycle and running paths and sidewalks is permitted."

So the totality of your statement was incorrect. Ipods and other such listening devices are allowed on base, just as long as you don't run in the road with them. Of course, local commanders can always implement more restrictive requirements.

Click to view parkerand susan's profile Legend 357 posts since
Oct 17, 2007
1,723. Mar 9, 2008 8:31 PM in response to: soldierboy
I agree Soldierboy ..it's for everyday runners a non issue..disregarding Military Base Races for a moment..this Rule 144 in Usatf Races has been in effect for a decade..but untill last year there was no enforcement...and even in the last year, enforcement has been news worthy because it has been so sparse and devisive..there has not been a disqualification for ipod use in a race that anyone can site..it's the lightning strike that is much discussed but not likely..if you are not a top 3 finisher there is no chance of a DQ in the vast majority of races..But everyone has there risk aversion quotient...the point of this thread discussion is not breaking rules..it's changing rules..or taking our entrance fee to races that allow Ipods..so far the numbers have been significant enough to rattle some cages and force some changes..if you chose to race without more power to you.. your a sensible adult making your own decision..we applaud that..
Click to view RKHII83's profile Pro 166 posts since
Oct 1, 2007
1,724. Mar 9, 2008 8:34 PM in response to: soldierboy

Soldier -


I googled, albeit slowly. The lead-in directing specific branch of service instruction lead me to check the OPNAVINST.

It's pretty clear to me that ipods can be used on base under certain conditions unless the base commander has specific installation level instructions directing otherwise.

And I almost forgot, thank you for your service.

Be Well.