I can't help it, I have to.

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Harriet UK

6 posts since
Jun 5, 2008

Jun 5, 2008 4:41 AM

I can't help it, I have to.

I tried this running malarkey one before - i think I got to about week 6 of c25k, but it was so painful for my knees I ended up so I was supposed to walk with a stick. The doctor did a test for arthritis and ruled that out, then said "don't run then." which I sulked about for a while and eventually tried to forget about running. I got a bike and took up cycling instead, which is great, I can cycle for miles and miles no problem, and I've got a 140 mile weekend ride planned for later in the year, and if the weather is nice, I might do 60 tomorrow. My bike goes everywhere with me - it substituted a cane for a while (a cane?! I'm only 25!) not so much anymore - my knees are healing.

But I joined a gym recently, and seeing everyone run on the treadmills, whilst I was walking was just too much. I'm not the fastest or fittest runner in the world, but I can't help but want to run. Sometimes, I close my eyes and see the path where I run passing me by, and I realise that cycling will never be good enough - A bike will carry me a hundred miles or more, and I don't plan to give that up, but there's nothing like running.

I'm back on week 1 of c25k now, 3 years after quitting the first time round.. I know I shouldn't run, but you all know how it is - sometimes, you just can't help but want to. First time I tried it, I ran for 5 minutes instead of one - I got to the end of a minute and thought "just a little bit more, just a little longer" and I carried on for 5 minutes, walked for 5 and did it again. I have more self control now - I run for a minute and walk a minute and a half, like a good noob. It's uncomfortable for my knees, but not painful - yet. And when I stop running, they stop complaining.

I've read that weight-bearing exercise is supposed to help poorly knees, so what happens if I keep working on week one, for as long as it takes for me to do it without any discomfort on my knees (or cripple myself again) Do you think that'll help my knees?
(they sort of feel like I've twisted them very slightly, just to the inside, at the front, bottom and just peeking out from under my kneecap - so I figure strengthening them will help - will it?)

pamburrus

32 posts since
May 14, 2008

1. Jun 5, 2008 5:32 AM

in response to: Harriet UK

I'm 27 and first noticed my knee problems when I was 18 - freshman year of college. It was so bad one morning I coudlnt stand to get out of bed. They called me in some 800mg ibupropen which seemed to help enought to get me moving and get me to the infirmary... where they said "It's probably arthritis. You may want to see a specialist". Well - being a college student (a broke college student) I didn't see a specialist and just accepted it as bad joints. I've never been SUPER active. I played softball and would go walking around campus with my friends for exercise... and then a litle Tae Bo here and there (love me some tae bo) but never really ran "because of my knees". (skip down to the last paragraph if you dont want to read haha)

Skip forward about 8 years - I'm now married and hubby is a runner. I've had bouts of gaining 25lbs then I'll do tae bo / count calories and lose again and signed up for the Breast Cancer 3 Day walk. Since I've started my traing my knee has been bothering me again. A couple of weeks ago my husband said "If you are walking as fast as you do every time - try running" Of course I told him "I CANT I HAVE BAD JOINTS I TOLD YOU".... then one day when I was on my walk, I picked up my feet and started jogging... very slowly... before I knew it I had made it half way around the neighborhood (not quite a mile... 3/4 maybe) and then I was HOOKED. You have to understand I had NEVER run even CLOSE to a mile in my life.

Ok so this story is getting long. I'll try to speed it up. So my knees were aching even when I wasnt running, but I loved the feeling of "going on a run" - then before I new it I had signed myself up for a 5k. The course was SUPER flat and I RAN THE WHOLE WAY omg I was SHOCKED.... and on top of that I got 1st place in my age group (It was a small race lol)

Well - desperately wanting to keep up my running, and not injure my knees, I made a trip to the specialist. They did 3 xrays and he basically told me I had Chondromalacia (aka runner's knee aka Irritate kneecap) and to keep taking 800mg of Ibupropen for inflamation - and to do exercises to strengthen my quads. I've been doing squats (make SURE you do them the right way - your knees should not go over your feet), lunges, stretching, etc. I cycle to crosstrain. I got one of those little knee bands you can get ANYWHERE that will take the pressure off your kneecap... and have been taking Cosamin DS (glucosamine and chondroiton) and everything in combination seems to be working for me!! I can go out and run about 3 miles at a time- and I've only been running a month now. I read that women especially have problems with their knees because of the positioning of the hips. They are wider which puts pressure on knees in a different way. Once my doctor told me I was fine to keep running - it became more of a mind over matter thing. Also make sure you are "running properly". dont push off with your feet, try just lifting them up. Dont lean forward when you run - it will shorten your stride. Jeff Galloway recommends pretending you are a puppet on a string.

Don't give up - GO SLOW and build up your quads. That should help. Keep us posted.

teri dacto

159 posts since
May 18, 2008

2. Jun 5, 2008 3:25 PM

in response to: Harriet UK

Harriet,

I don't know if it could help or not but I am reading book called Chi Running. The author says he has camps, etc and has been able to take people who have joint pain, etc and transformed them into people who run without injuries. He talks a lot about using your core and then letting your limbs follow....pretty interesting thus far. He offers advice in the book on how you can become injury free...he runs those 50 mile races, etc. Also, are you wearing the right shoes? Hope you are able to get back into running.

lenzlaw

4,237 posts since
Jan 18, 2008

3. Jun 6, 2008 8:42 AM

in response to: teri dacto

All of this is good advice. But one thing I don't see mentioned is shoes (whoops, teri did mention shoes). Get yourself a gait analysis and make sure you are in the right shoes for you. A good running shoe store will do one, running on a treadmill (if they tell you to walk, you want a different store), and possibly make a video so you can be seen in slo-mo. You can also get one professionally from a podiatrist, orthopedist or similar doctor, and some fitness and sports medicine centers.

Len

Lenz's Law is a special case of Le Chatelier's principle: Any change in status quo prompts an opposing reaction in the responding system. I like that one better.

Harriet UK

6 posts since
Jun 5, 2008

4. Jun 7, 2008 5:31 AM

in response to: lenzlaw

Thanks for all the advice. My knees are complaining more and more, so I'll decide wether I should carry on on Monday - I had a feeling that me knees hurt because my knees hurt, and it had little to do with running - Still seeing how that goes.

I'll definitely try to get some proper running shoes and have my gait analyzed, but it'll be something I have to save up for - I'm a skint student, y'see. I've already been running shoe shopping, and when you get them from real shops (as opposed to discount outlets) they're quite expensive! I'll also try to get an appointment to see my doctor again, when I go home in a weeks time, and on recommendation from....well, somewhere (can't remember exactly where), I've already bought myself some gel things that go in the freezer, so I can ice after every run.

Jay Silvio

1,762 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

5. Jun 7, 2008 11:11 AM

in response to: Harriet UK

Harriet UK wrote:
Thanks for all the advice. My knees are complaining more and more, so I'll decide wether I should carry on on Monday - I had a feeling that me knees hurt because my knees hurt, and it had little to do with running - Still seeing how that goes.

If you are hurting, you need to take it easy. Listen to what your body is telling you. I have found that cross-training (swimming, biking, elliptical training, etc.) is a great way to go when you start feeling these types of pains. That way you can still exercise, but you reduce the pounding on your legs and minimize injuries. I hope this helps. Let us know if you have any other questions or comments.
Good luck and happy running!
Jay

Harriet UK

6 posts since
Jun 5, 2008

6. Jun 9, 2008 9:07 AM

in response to: Harriet UK

erm....I may have failed to mention, when I run, the balls of my feet hit the ground first.
One of the trainers at the gym pointed it out to me today - I mean, I knew, but it never occurred to me that everyone didn't run like that! She didn't say wether it was good or bad, just mentioned that it was unusual.

Anyway I did week one day one of c25k again today, the middle few reps were uncomfortable, but certainly not painful. By the final rep, my knees had given up complaining and appeared to be just getting on with the job. I enjoyed it so much, I ran for 6 straight minutes before I remembered what I was supposed to be doing!
Strange, because my knees were a bit sore just from mooching around the flat this morning!

Jay Silvio

1,762 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

7. Jun 9, 2008 10:15 AM

in response to: Harriet UK

Harriet UK wrote:
erm....I may have failed to mention, when I run, the balls of my feet hit the ground first.
One of the trainers at the gym pointed it out to me today - I mean, I knew, but it never occurred to me that everyone didn't run like that! She didn't say wether it was good or bad, just mentioned that it was unusual.

I also strike on the forefoot rather than the heel like most other runners. It is unusual, but I've been told it is actually more biomechanically efficient. The only real issue is that shoe companies don't design shoes with us in mind. Most shoes have these great designs and technologies for reducing impact on the heel area of the shoe, but if you don't land there it isn't any help at all...

MRoz43

1 posts since
Jun 9, 2008

8. Jun 9, 2008 10:16 AM

in response to: Harriet UK

Hi Harriet,

ultra newb here, however, not without experience in shin pain. I found out some exercises to strengthen my shins so now I feel inspired to begin running and have entered and completed my first 5K! which was quite cool. I was wondering perhaps if your doc could recommend strength building exercises for your knees. Also, I, like you, invested in proper shoes which appears to help a good deal. Good luck. I hope you find your way.

Oscar's MumMum

37 posts since
Apr 17, 2008

9. Jun 9, 2008 10:48 AM

in response to: Harriet UK

I'd make sure to keep your doctor involved in any exercise program. Taking it slow sounds like a good idea. Make sure to take your days off too. Even though the C25K has only 3 workouts a week, I really wanted to push through and do 2 weeks worth of the program in one week. This is not a good idea. You could try water running to strengthen your legs and get a great cardio workout. I've heard the elliptical is more gentle on the knees too. Good shoes built for running and selected by a professional specifically for your feet can ease discomfort too. If you do go the weight training route, work with a trainer at first to make certain your form is correct. If you hyper-extend your knees or have your knee out of alignment durning a lift, you'll do so much damage. GL.

lenzlaw

4,237 posts since
Jan 18, 2008

10. Jun 9, 2008 11:02 AM

in response to: Jay Silvio

Jay Silvio wrote:

Though forefoot striking is supposed to be more biomechanically efficient, my understanding is it can also be harder on the legs, particularly the ankles and knees. This is because the foot normally absorbs a lot of the impact through pronation, but it happens to a lesser degree with forefoot strikers. And the number of shoes with good forefoot cushioning is getting "thinner and thinner'. These days, by the time I get to 16 or 18 miles in a marathon, I feel like I'm running directly on the pavement.

Len

Lenz's Law is a special case of Le Chatelier's principle: Any change in status quo prompts an opposing reaction in the responding system. I like that one better.

Jay Silvio

1,762 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

11. Jun 9, 2008 12:10 PM

in response to: lenzlaw

lenzlaw wrote:
And the number of shoes with good forefoot cushioning is getting "thinner and thinner'. These days, by the time I get to 16 or 18 miles in a marathon, I feel like I'm running directly on the pavement.

I actually take my shoes into a repair shop located in the local podiatrist's office and have part of the sole replaced with a more durable material. If I didn't do this, I'd need new shoes every month! As is, it's a real good thing I get a discount from Brooks.

rolling1977

166 posts since
May 23, 2006

12. Jun 9, 2008 12:33 PM

in response to: Harriet UK

I second the motion for Chi Running. The POSE method ruined my achilles where it attaches to the calf. It took over a year for me to recover, and I only ran a quarter mile with that method. I get shivers just typing POSE. Try Galloway. It is a good common sense way to keep going with minimal, or no, injury.

Harriet UK

6 posts since
Jun 5, 2008

13. Jun 11, 2008 8:28 AM

in response to: Harriet UK

I'm sorry, here I am again with more dumb questions about the same thing.

I've been doing c25k, week one, for two weeks now, but a couple of times, I've just kept running on the last rep. I did ten minutes at once today - the thing is, during the run/walk interval, my knees ache a bit - not pain as such, just discomfort in the usual spot, but on the last rep, the longer I keep running, the less discomfort I feel - today after about 5 minutes, I felt like I could have run all day.
Why?

Could it be that I'm actually making a mountain out of a molehill and what I'm worrying about is just my joints finding ways to adjust to the pounding I'm giving them?

Jojo_tkc

73 posts since
Apr 15, 2008

14. Jun 13, 2008 8:58 PM

in response to: Harriet UK

*+"the thing is, during the run/walk interval, my knees ache a bit - not pain as such, just discomfort in the usual spot, but on the last rep, the longer I keep running, the less discomfort I feel - today after about 5 minutes, I felt like I could have run all day."

To be Honest with you mine (knees) did the same thing. I have an old injury in my left knee that I never had looked at by a Dr. It used to get to the point that it felt like it was swollen to the size of a basketball. When I started back running again I started out slow like you described and my knee started feeling the same way you describe, now that I'm running regualarly and varying up during the week with the elliptical and the bicycle my knee really does not bother me that much. Well, definately not everyday like it used to. I would definately suggest having it looked at though just to make sure nothing is REALLY wrong and just to give you the piece of mind.

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Jun 5, 2008 4:41 AM

I can't help it, I have to.

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