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6022 Views 71 Replies Latest reply: Nov 29, 2007 3:20 PM by PeterP002 RSS Go to original post 1 2 3 4 5 Previous Next
  • NYCross Rookie 161 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    60. Nov 28, 2007 8:45 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    If he's so mentally unhealthy that he was unable to rationally make the decision not to cheat (repeatedly), then he's mentally unhealthy enough that he should be removed from the PhD program.

  • SwimSurfDive018 Rookie 36 posts since
    Nov 2, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    62. Nov 28, 2007 11:40 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    quote:


    Originally posted by Leggova:

    It is highly likely that he should not be in the programme but that is not my decision to make.

    So the latest is that his case will go through but I have organised an appointment with a counselor who will help him emtionally and also mediate if necessary with the superisor to ensure that he is not kicked out.


     



    This may seem harsh, but why not let him get kicked out? I don't think he necessarily should (because I haven't seen any of the evidence), but why rule it out?
    I'm on a board of academic honor control at my school, which is a board comprised of students and deans that sees all of the cheating and plagarism cases for undergraduates at my school. The school is very stressful, and occasionally, students will do something that warrants a leave from the school. You need to let this happen -- let the board review his case. If he is mentally unstable, who's to say that staying in the program is the best thing for him? It might be better for him if he left. I think having a counselor there is a good idea, but not necessarily to make sure that he stays in the program. It seems like it defeats the purpose of reporting him.

  • fredurie Legend 1,895 posts since
    Aug 21, 2002
    Currently Being Moderated
    64. Nov 29, 2007 10:30 AM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    quote:


    Originally posted by Leggova:

    I tend to agree that I have to stick with the policy, but I disagree that his mental health is not my concern. Seeing someone suffering and not doing anything is ethically wrong. I wouldn't not walk away from someone hurt in the street, and as the person's teacher I think I have some duty of care.

    I have already sent him the details of the student councelling service.


     



    Well, what if we all threatened to commit suicide every time we didn't get
    what we wanted?

    Ethically, you have to call people on their shxt and not be manipulated.

  • jcumming Amateur 704 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    65. Nov 29, 2007 10:38 AM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    quote:


    Originally posted by fredurie:

    Well, what if we all threatened to commit suicide every time we didn't get
    what we wanted?

    Ethically, you have to call people on their shxt and not be manipulated.


     



    Just to toss out a hypothetical, what would be a suitable ratio of suicides to threats of suicide before a change in procedure should be looked into.

    2:1 ??   50:1??  500:1 ???

  • fredurie Legend 1,895 posts since
    Aug 21, 2002
    Currently Being Moderated
    66. Nov 29, 2007 10:40 AM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    quote:


    Originally posted by jcumming:

    Just to toss out a hypothetical, what would be a suitable ratio of suicides to threats of suicide before a change in procedure should be looked into.

    2:1 ?? 50:1?? 500:1 ???


     



    Back off or I'm killing myself.

  • jcumming Amateur 704 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    67. Nov 29, 2007 10:49 AM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    quote:


    Originally posted by fredurie:

    Back off or I'm killing myself.


     



    Now we wait to see how the ratio goes? 

  • pigeye097 Rookie 193 posts since
    Nov 2, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    68. Nov 29, 2007 10:52 AM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    quote:


    Originally posted by jcumming:

    Now we wait to see how the ratio goes? !http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/smile.gif|src=http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/smile.gif|border=0!


     



    back off or I'll kill him, too.

  • PeterP002 Rookie 98 posts since
    Mar 13, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    69. Nov 29, 2007 11:01 AM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    Why are you treating this situation as though it was one issue?  There are two issues, #1 the cheating, and #2 the student's mental health.  You should approach both issues as though they were happening with two different students.

  • Iontach Rookie 1,340 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    70. Nov 29, 2007 1:36 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    quote:


    Originally posted by PeterP:

    You should approach both issues as though they were happening with two different students.


     



    As usual, you are absolutely right. The student should be (a) dismissed from the program with the offence being noted on his transcript so that he is never admitted to any other university and (b) allowed to remain, resubmit and complete the program on mental health grounds.

    It's obvious, when one thinks about it.

  • PeterP002 Rookie 98 posts since
    Mar 13, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    71. Nov 29, 2007 3:20 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    quote:


    Originally posted by Iontach:

    As usual, you are absolutely right. The student should be (a) dismissed from the program with the offence being noted on his transcript so that he is never admitted to any other university and (b) allowed to remain, resubmit and complete the program on mental health grounds.

    It's obvious, when one thinks about it.


     



    Your logic is flawed.  Student B doesn't have an issue with the university, he has a mental health problem.  You try to get him mental health treatment.

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