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11567 Views 12 Replies Latest reply: Aug 24, 2009 1:54 PM by Lou_B
BillRen Rookie 5 posts since
May 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

May 10, 2008 3:55 PM

Little League - Re-draft or Titling of players

 

I'm interested in knowing what people think of Titling players in Little League majors vs. Re-drafting players each year.  It seems as though people I speak with who're already in majors  and have been exposed to this are polarized in their opinions, because they're already caught in a situation.  I'd be interested in hearing from folks who're not in majors yet to see what your opinion might be before you become involved in majors. 

 

 

Here's the situation...if you're a parent of a t-baller, coach pitch, machine pitch or minor a or b level player (basically ages 5-9), and you've not been involved in Titling or Re-drafting with an older child who's already been through majors, here's what you'll be encountering.  Titling is when a player is selected to a majors team (as young as age 10 if they're good players) and each year thereafter will be on that  team for the rest of their majors career.  Players ages 10, 11 and 12 are typically eligible to be drafted.  Re-drafting is exactly how it sounds.  Each year the league's managers and coaches draft fresh teams by putting all players into the draft pool, then select teams.

 

 

What do you think is in the best interest of your kids, when considering their overall Little League experience?  When and if your child gets drafted or is of age to play majors, would  you like your league to Title or Re-draft?

 

 

 

 

 

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. May 20, 2008 8:12 AM (in response to BillRen)
    Re: Little League - Re-draft or Titling of players

     

    Re-Draft, it has the best chance of resulting in balance between the teams.

     

     

    Duration of Title often results in some "very strong" teams and some "very weak" teams, not a good thing IMO.

     

     

  • Coach40490 Rookie 7 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Jun 24, 2008 11:51 AM (in response to BillRen)
    Re: Little League - Re-draft or Titling of players

     

    There are pros and cons of both situations.  I do not have children that have experienced the situation yet but I am on the Board of our league so I have been in discussions about the situation.  Our league and surrounding leagues title players.  This may not be the best for the balance of teams but most times it definitely works out in the best interest of the overall league (parents and players). Also, our league allows our players to keep their uniforms at the conclusion of the season which also helps out the parents because they can still utilize the same uniform (most of the time) for the following season. 

     

     

    With the redraft the only real benefit is that the teams can potentially be more balanced and the players will have the opportunity to learn from a different coach. 

     

     

    One of our concerns is that if we were to redraft, our league would be more balanced, but we also play against other local leagues.  If those leagues did not adopt the same procedures then our league would be at a disadvantage going into the tournaments.

     

     

    There are a lot of things that need to be considered prior to making a change in the way players are allocated.  If the league has always re-drafted I would stick to that because the switch from titled players to a draft is can turn into a political nightmare.

     

     

    Frank

     

     

  • FranklinWhiddon Rookie 6 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Sep 21, 2008 8:33 AM (in response to BillRen)
    Re: Little League - Re-draft or Titling of players

     

    Our league currently uses Titling over re-drafting. I will respond now that my son is moving up to Junior League.

     

     

         In order to save a little time,Titling is the best way to go. We currently use a 9-12 age pool for the Majors level. There are some 9 year olds that are drafted and for 4 years remain on the same team. The tryout pool remains smaller and takes less time. In re-drafting,would you be having everyone tryout again? If so,this will take much more time. If you will be having only those that have yet to make the majors tryout,then new incoming managers would be at a disadvantage for those existing players. Titling does sometimes tilt the playing field one way or another but if your Mjors managers remain the same,it does tend to balance out. With the new rule of all 12 year olds must be drafted,it does complicate things a bit.

     

     

       Now,my personal opinion is that I wish we would go to a re-drafting process. The reason is simple. Sometimes coaches and kids alike get complacent. A coach for 4 years may not catch something in a batter's swing, a pitcher's motion or in a fielders progress. I like the idea of re-drafting because some of these kids will get to see a new coach that may can help them in some aspect of their game that another coach may have missed. It also increases the ability of the kids to socialize and make new friends rather than considering them rivals,in a sense. The team my son was on did really well until this last season when I had to draft young by having the last pick in every round. I didn't go wrong by drafting young because I got some really good talented kids,they were just a bit too young to compete yet. Next season and for a couple afterwards,they will be a pretty good team. Re-drafting would have balanced the playing field a bit more. I am not complaining because we had fun even when not winning but in the best interest of the kids,a re-draft would have been huge.

     

     

      Keep in mind that in re-drafting,all existing major league players will have to be drafted.They cannot play at the minor league level no matter how talented or non-talented they are/were. This is the risk you take. If you have 2 leagues (American and National),according to my understanding of the rule,they cannot move from one league to the other.

     

     

    -Frank-

     

     

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Sep 23, 2008 6:25 PM (in response to Coach40490)
    Re: Little League - Re-draft or Titling of players

     

    Here is a common problem with Titling players:

     

     

    A Team has eight 12 year olds a couple or three of 11s and a 10 or two.  A few of the 12s (3-4 of them) are the pitchers and the #1 and #2 are "studs" so they pitch most of the time with #3 and #4 pitching as needed.  The team dominates the league (rarely if ever loses) and wins the Championship.

     

     

    The next year, the Manager, who's kid was 12, moves up to Juniors and a new Manager takes over.  The new Manager has to draft 8 or 9 players and he only has a couple of 12 year olds returning (the 11s from last year) and NO returning pitching.

     

     

    So, what are the odds of that team winning much this season?  How much "fun" are those kids going to have going winless?

     

     

    So, the new Manager drafts a bunch of 11 year olds and a 10 or two.  He builds for next year because this year is hopeless anyway,  So, guess what, next year he has a bunch of 12 year olds and many of them pitched as 11 year olds, so, now "history" repeats itself!!!

     

     

    Re-Draft, try to make ALL the teams as equal as possible.  Give ALL the kids a chance to have a good season.

     

     

  • Darrylmiami Rookie 1 posts since
    May 11, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Dec 5, 2008 9:28 PM (in response to BillRen)
    Re: Little League - Re-draft or Titling of players

     

    Interesting topic for sure. My take is that the objective is for the kids to be in the most positive situation possible. I'd propose a compromise, and allow those who wish to enter a re-draft to so while allowing those who wish to stay on their current teams to stay. We all know that coaches have different styles and strengths. For example, a kid who pitches would progress more with a coach who KNOWS pitching(manager or one of the coaches). A kid with hitting problems gets better under someone who KNOWS hitting. And being honest, personalities don't always mesh, and sometimes its in the best interests of both parties(player and coach) to part ways. What leagues would do is establish a period during which players/parents would either enter a re-draft or decide to stay on the present team. Coaches would receive a list of returning players and draft to fill the open roster spots. A coach could NOT select a player who indicated a desire to leave that coach's team, and a player cannot specify what teams he wants to play for.

     

     

    I suggest this as a result of hearing stories about kids being "stuck" with a certain team/coach for multiple years in negative situations. But it also allows positive relationships to continue. By the way, the choice to be re-drafted is made by the  player/parent, NOT by the coach. Coaches would not be able to "cut" kids and send them back into the draft pool.

     

     

  • NA_Umpires Community Moderator 350 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Dec 6, 2008 8:37 AM (in response to Darrylmiami)
    Re: Little League - Re-draft or Titling of players

     

    Darryl: players already have that option. They can petition the Board of Directors to leave their team and go back into the draft. They have to attend tryouts, and there is no guarantee they will be selected to a Majors team.

     

     

    Myself, I think that titling players is an abomination. As others have pointed out, in leagues that title players, coaches will "draft for the future" -- drafting as many talented 10 year olds as they can. This of course means that the 12s on that team lose out, but in 3 years that team will RULE.

     

     

    For me, it's about ALL the kids. EVERY kid should come to EVERY game thinking "we're gonna win today". The perfect season is when every team goes .500.

     

     

    I'd go so far as to say Little League should abolish the titling of players and mandate a complete redraft every year. We used to title players. It stunk. The "better" coaches weren't necessarily the better coaches; they just knew the kids better. A new coach had no chance, unless he was truly outstanding (yes, the trophy looks nice, thank you very much ) because he'd get victimized at the draft. You know what I mean "Oh, good choice" when the right thing to say was "STOP ! Draft X, not Y. These other guys are sandbagging". Just nonsense.

     

     

    For the last several years we've done a total redraft. It's worked really well. You can't just draft a couple of stud pitchers when they are 10 and sit on your bucket outside the dugout and collect your plastic trophy. You wanna win you gotta COACH.

     

     

    If you combine it with a consistent league-wide coaching education program, then more players get the benefit of having the "better" coaches and it's better for everyone.

     

     





    NABCLL VP 13-18 Baseball, Umpire-in-Chief http://www.nayouthbaseball.org
    NAVYU (youth umpires) - http://eteamz.active.com/naumpires

    Merrimack Valley Umpires Association Board of Directors - http://www.mvua.org

  • FranklinWhiddon Rookie 6 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Dec 6, 2008 9:09 AM (in response to NA_Umpires)
    Re: Little League - Re-draft or Titling of players

     

    NA_Umpires,

     

     

      In response to only part of your post,it is my understanding that once a child has played a specific level (like Majors-Little League)l,he/she must remain at that level of play. They cannot be placed in a minors program once they have played 1 game in the Majors.Same goes for a 12 year old that has played 1 Junior League game,they are no longer eligible for the Majors division. I have seen leagues do things like this in a re-draft method because someone "made a mistake" in their draft and the child was not as "talented" as they thought. These same leagues have been caught when tournament play time comes and games had to be forefeited by those leagues. I would be extremely careful in placing a child in a lower division that has already played at a higher level within your league.If a parent ever petitions Little League about this,someone could get into serious trouble.

     

     

     

     

     

    Just thought i would toss that out.

     

     

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    FranklinWhiddon wrote:

     

    NA_Umpires,

     

    In response to only part of your post,it is my understanding that once a child has played a specific level (like Majors-Little League)l,he/she must remain at that level of play. They cannot be placed in a minors program once they have played 1 game in the Majors.Same goes for a 12 year old that has played 1 Junior League game,they are no longer eligible for the Majors division. I have seen leagues do things like this in a re-draft method because someone "made a mistake" in their draft and the child was not as "talented" as they thought. These same leagues have been caught when tournament play time comes and games had to be forefeited by those leagues. I would be extremely careful in placing a child in a lower division that has already played at a higher level within your league.If a parent ever petitions Little League about this,someone could get into serious trouble.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Just thought i would toss that out.

     

     

    There are ways in which a player who played at a higher division in LL the previous season could end up playing at a lower level the following season.  These include:

     

     

    1.  The player was granted a release and then failed to attend tryouts.  Once a player is granted a release, he/she must attend tryouts to qualify playing in the league.  A failure to attend those tryouts and not have an excuse accepted by the board of directors subjects that player from not being allowed to play LL baseball at ANY level.  Some leagues will, however, allow a kid to play Minors in lieu of not playing at all.

     

     

    2.  The player moves to another league.  No guarantees when a player is new to the league, unless age requirements take precedence.

     

     

    3.  The parents request it.  As you point out, some parents may feel that their 10 year-old was nowhere near ready for Majors the previous season, and would rather not have him/her play Majors as an 11.

     

     

    4.  The league runs its draft per the Plan C "Blind Draft" method identified in the Operating Manual.  Unlike Plan B, this method does not call for returning Majors players to be drafted first.  It's possible for a player who played as a 9 year-old the previous season (some leagues do have kids that young in Majors) from not getting his/her name drawn during the blind picks.

     

     

    Yes, for the most part, kids won't play down from one season to the next.  But it can happen, and be within the guidelines spelled out by LL.

     

     

    Manny Aponte

     

     

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Dec 11, 2008 2:12 PM (in response to Manny_A)
    Re: Little League - Re-draft or Titling of players

     

    I'm not sure about the "Blind Draft Method" - ever since this was "copied/pasted" from the "METHOD IN FIRST YEAR OF OPERATION" to the "METHODS FOR EXISTING LEAGUES" I have asked LL how to "implement" this.  That is, under Duration of Title the only EXCEPTION listed is Plan B, so that "seems" to indicate that you would retain your returners and only BLIND DRAFT the players needed to fill out your roster.  I have asked if the real intent was to do a Two Part Blind Draft (pick all the Returners first, then the new players).  The Returners would still end up in Majors but they could be on different teams (which means it would also be an EXCEPTION to Duration of Title).  I haven't really "pushed" for an answer because no league that I know of uses the Blind Draft Method, so why make a big deal out of it !!!

     

     

  • lyndel Rookie 4 posts since
    Jan 10, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Aug 20, 2009 7:47 AM (in response to Lou_B)
    Re: Little League - Re-draft or Titling of players

     

    It is hard to say what is the best method is?  We were new to our area 2 years ago.  My husband was ask to manage an eleven year old team not knowing anything about the kids.  We did not have a good year.  But, it was nice to have some parents tell us they would like my husband to coach their child the next year.   He managed an 8 year old team this year.  He found at the draft -people had already discussed who they were taking, who they wanted to trade for, parents who wanted their child to play for a certain coach., coaches with laptops with what these children had done for years. And these were 8 year olds.

     

     

      So with redrafting or titling,  they can become one and the same.  My husband has been a high school coach for almost 30 years.  He has found out it is not the little league of his growing up.  As you can see, there are always some looking to the future.  They are not so interested in helping children develop into good players as they are getting players they do not have to develop.

     

     

    But straight out titling, we believe it allows to much domination of some children to the detriminate to other children.  At this age, sports is supposed to be about learning, not about let 's see how many teams we can beat, son.  It can instill character traits that we see culminating in some of the problems in our culture today.

     

     

     

     

     

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Aug 24, 2009 1:54 PM (in response to lyndel)
    Re: Little League - Re-draft or Titling of players

     

    Most of the local Little Leagues in our area now re-draft every year (little by little they did away with "duration of tittle).

     

     

    A couple use "Plan B" but most use a Total Re-Draft Plan (the manager can draft any eligible player (returner or new player)) and the league "guarantees" that the Player Agent will ensure all returning major players and all 12 year olds get drafted into majors (Except for 12 year olds with Approved Waivers to play in Minors).

     

     

    This "Draft Plan" is submitted to Williamsport along with the League Charter Application (in accordance with LL Regulations) and it gets approved by Williamsport (several of our  leagues have been doing it for years with no problems).

     

     

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