RU-486 as a murder weapon? ...

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46 Replies Last post: Dec 4, 2007 12:03 AM by calikay Go to original post 1 2 3 4 Previous Next

gebuh

102 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

15. Nov 30, 2007 7:19 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

Why do you need to agree? If you think abortion is wrong, don't ever have an abortion.
As far as I'm concerned, abortion is murder, at least that's the way you should look at it if you ever have to consider it. That way you'll be under no illusions about it and nothing will come back to bite you later. Most of the time abortion is about pragmatism, sometimes you have to be pragmatic.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rich Mac:
He should have been charged for some other crime, than murder.
Assault maybe.

But that's where I have a tough time with the abortion discussion. I'm against abortion for reasons such as the one laid out here, and the time line or when abortion is legal.. first, second or third trimester. Partial birth abortion- WTF is that, you can deliver part of the baby and kill it's brain before you deliver the rest of the baby.. and it's okay..

Remember I'm still the person who would have no problem shooting to kill an intruder in my home.

If you can pin point a time line, then I could agree with abortion.. Like maybe sometime before it has it's own heart beat.. I could agree.. <HR>

Rich Mac

331 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

16. Dec 20, 2007 6:31 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by gebuh:
Why do you need to agree?.

<HR>

Logic.. I want to think about this logically.

http://This message has been edited by Rich Mac (edited Nov-30-2007).

Pandora042

22 posts since
Apr 30, 2007

17. Dec 2, 2007 7:43 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Blackbird:
Recently, a Wisconsin man was caught trying to slip RU-486, the abortion pill, into his pregnant girlfriend's milkshake. She noticed the powdery substance, and feigned illness to not drink it. Instead, she took it to a lab and had it tested, whereupon it was determined that her shake was spiked with the abortion drug. Forget about what a prince this guy is, and what their relationship must have been like for her to go to the trouble of having the drink analyzed at a lab.

What's ripe for discussion is what said boyfriend has been charged with -- namely, attempted first-degree intentional homicide of an unborn child. Under Wisconsin's feticide law someone who attacks a pregnant woman and causes injury or death to her fetus could face life in prison.

The 1st degree murder charge scares the **** out of me. If the charge is for action against the fetus, not the pregnant woman, then what is the difference between him slipping her the pill and her taking the pill of her own volition?<HR>

Nothing like a wonderful pro-choice man to give me the warm fuzzies....except how did he get a hold of RU 486? It is only available by prescription. As it is a controlled substance it would seem attempting to fool someone into ingesting it would qualify this as a form of assault.

770

320 posts since
Jul 22, 2006

18. Dec 2, 2007 8:08 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Fionn mac Cumhail:
There are many instances when deliberately taking a life isn't murder....or, in fact, even a crime....

Read any state execution death certificate....Cause of Death: Homicide....

<HR>

Interesting. I've never seen a state execution death certificate. But I'm surprised the cause of death isn't simply whatever method was used to executed him - electrocution, heart failure in the case of lethal drugs being used.

770

320 posts since
Jul 22, 2006

19. Dec 2, 2007 8:15 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Blackbird:
The 1st degree murder charge scares the **** out of me. If the charge is for action against the fetus, not the pregnant woman, then what is the difference between him slipping her the pill and her taking the pill of her own volition?<HR>

In my mind, abortion is always a woman's choice. Had she chosen to use the RU-486, no crime is committed. The fact the guy tried to cause the abortion of the fetus without her consent does make it a criminal offense.

If he was so concerned about her becoming pregnant he should have practiced safe sex and then the issue wouldn't have come up.

kommish77

151 posts since
May 23, 2002

20. Dec 3, 2007 11:58 AM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by makeda:
If I take money out of my wallet, I don't get charged with stealing.<HR>

But if I get in your wallet to take out some money that is ours, should I get charged with stealing?

Consistency is the issue.

Rich Mac

331 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

21. Dec 20, 2007 6:31 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by 770:
<HR>

Yes it was criminal.. but should not be any kind of homicide.

willmary

204 posts since
May 2, 2003

22. Dec 3, 2007 12:14 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by 770:
In my mind, abortion is always a woman's choice. Had she chosen to use the RU-486, no crime is committed. The fact the guy tried to cause the abortion of the fetus without her consent does make it a criminal offense.

If he was so concerned about her becoming pregnant he should have practiced safe sex and then the issue wouldn't have come up.<HR>

Sometimes birth control methods fail. You don't know for sure that they didn't practice safe sex.

luckylily

290 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

23. Dec 3, 2007 12:19 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rich Mac:

If you can pin point a time line, then I could agree with abortion.. Like maybe sometime before it has it's own heart beat.. I could agree.. <HR>

Considering that the heartbeat is detectable by ultrasound as early as 5 weeks pregnant, and most women won't get a positive pregnancy test result prior to 4 weeks pregnant, and most doctors won't see a pregnant woman for a "confirmation of pregnancy" appointment until 8-12 weeks pregnant, on behalf of womankind, I thank you for your generous timeline as to how long we should be allowed to have autonomy over our own bodies.

Arrojo070

307 posts since
Apr 4, 2001

24. Dec 3, 2007 12:30 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

Blobs of protoplasm are not human beings, regardless of what the nutcases think.

This can't be murder.

770

320 posts since
Jul 22, 2006

25. Dec 3, 2007 12:56 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by willmary:
Sometimes birth control methods fail. You don't know for sure that they didn't practice safe sex.<HR>

In which case if the guy wanted a 100% fool proof way of preventing pregnancy abstinence was available as an option. There are always risks one has to be aware of whether having sex, taking a medication or taking MnD's stock advice. One has to determine their own risk tolerance level.

But the bottom line is the woman always determines whether to take a pregnancy to term. He had no right to attempt to end it. Now whether the crime fits "homicide" is another issue depending on State laws.

willmary

204 posts since
May 2, 2003

26. Dec 3, 2007 1:06 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by 770:
In which case if the guy wanted a 100% fool proof way of preventing pregnancy abstinence was available as an option. There are always risks one has to be aware of whether having sex, taking a medication or taking MnD's stock advice. One has to determine their own risk tolerance level.

But the bottom line is the woman always determines whether to take a pregnancy to term. He had no right to attempt to end it. Now whether the crime fits "homicide" is another issue depending on State laws.<HR>

Just keeping the conversation honest. It's easy to slap a label on someone with an unplanned pregnancy as careless or irresponsible, but life's a bit messier than that.

Rich Mac

331 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

27. Dec 3, 2007 1:06 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by luckylily:
Considering that the heartbeat is detectable by ultrasound as early as 5 weeks pregnant, and most women won't get a positive pregnancy test result prior to 4 weeks pregnant, and most doctors won't see a pregnant woman for a "confirmation of pregnancy" appointment until 8-12 weeks pregnant, on behalf of womankind, I thank you for your generous timeline as to how long we should be allowed to have autonomy over our own bodies.

<HR>

What do you suggest? after the first breath? I'm open to suggestions.

kommish77

151 posts since
May 23, 2002

28. Dec 3, 2007 1:19 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by willmary:
Just keeping the conversation honest. It's easy to slap a label on someone with an unplanned pregnancy as careless or irresponsible, but life's a bit messier than that.<HR>

Like 770 said, if he wanted a 100% option, abstinence was the way to go. I think careless and irresponsible labels fit quite well, not matter how messy you might think life is.

willmary

204 posts since
May 2, 2003

29. Dec 3, 2007 1:34 PM

in response to: Blackbird050

Re: RU-486 as a murder weapon?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by kommish77:
Like 770 said, if he wanted a 100% option, abstinence was the way to go. I think careless and irresponsible labels fit quite well, not matter how messy you might think life is.

<HR>

Actually, that was 770 changing his stand.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by 770:
...If he was so concerned about her becoming pregnant he should have practiced safe sex and then the issue wouldn't have come up.<HR>

I'm pro-life but I think it's naive (at best) to think safe sex is enough to prevent all unplanned pregnancies.

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