My doubt in the study stemmed partly from NONE of the non-runners having OA. That's a little far-fetched to me. I'll buy that there might be some increased risk, but given that it is not something that pops out in every study conducted it seems to be relatively small given the benefits gained.

As for mileage, how many people really put in huge miles for decades? Fairly elite individuals might do it for 20 years, but most eventually back it down to the "fitness" level. I don't know any masters runners hobbled my OA, and I know quite a few. So I think 19% vs. 0% is not correct.

I know several older folks like myself who are going into their 100's and over 200 marathons. Most of these people are over 50 and the ones I know over 60 mostly do 5 & 10k's. They are fast too, they pass me up at the TCU speedwork sessions.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by PoppasGotaBrandNewBag:
During marathon training I went from being able to grab a basketball rim with no problem to barely being able to touch the backboard (I called it adult-onset white man's disease). I also lost 30 pounds from my bench press. If your goal is to run the fastest possible marathon, this is acceptable and even desirable, since carrying extra body weight, even if it's muscle, will slow you down.<HR>

I have noticed a loss of strength but the problem is not the marathon training, its the sudden lack of motivation to go to the gym when i could be running. My 3 x a week full body workouts have turned in to a perfunctory one upper and one lower body workout per week.

I keep promising myself that I will take a month off running in January to do some serious bulking.


------------------
Me[/URL" target="_blank">
My Running Club[/URL" target="_blank">

http://This message has been edited by bigapplepie (edited Oct-11-2005).

Interesting read everyone. This (2005) was my first year getting of the couch and doing somthing positive since playing college football 10 years ago. My friends and I decided that we are Tri-Athletes other than runners basically because we "were" all fat at the time so we could probably float in the lake (not true) and coast on the bike (somewhat true). After almost 40 pounds lost and 7 months of training of swimming, biking, and running, I found that the only time I felt pain (knees) was lately when I was only running for the Tulsa Run (9.3 miles). The Tri season is basically over so running became the priority. In two weeks I'm doing a half and was originaly going to go for a full in the wine country of CA in the spring of 2006. Not anymore. I'm doing this stuff not to say I did it, but for my HEALTH and the more I run the worse my body feels. But everybody is different and has different reasons. My point is this... most of my friends are fat as well as most of the people I know. If they are not fat they are probably still unhealthy. Just getting off your a*s and doing somthing is AWESOME unlike most of the population. Even if you suck at exercise just think of your neighbors and fiends that don't do **** and will pay in the long term. If you need insperation to get out and run and a marathon provides that, then DO IT! If your more concerned about being able to drink beer and not get fat and hopefully live longer like me, then maybe run smaller amounts or combine other activities... BUT get in a club or start a group like we did (http://www.undertall.com). It helps in motivation and is so much fun I thought about giving up golf.

Wurven

I have known hundreds of runners - some who have given up marathons for ultras, and more who gave up marathon running for shorter distances because of the stress on their bodies, but who still race - even a couple in their late 50s who can still run well under 6 min mile pace for 10Ks. I've read several review articles. The concensus is that in general Yes, marathons break you down - they don't build you up.

There are two factors involved. The length of the race itself and the time on one's feet seem to be bad for joints and muscles. The second factor is running close to glycogen depletion and releasing stess hormones that do a number on one's immune system, and may not so good for the heart, either. Shorter races, like 5Ks, 10Ks, do seem to build one up, even half marathons don't reach that level where readily available glycogen reserves are gone, so they are at worst neutral health-wise. That's not the case with marathons. What may seem strange at first glance is that marathons appear to be even worse on the body than ultras. But if you think about it, most ultramarathoners break up their runs with walks, a lot of time the runs are on softer surfaces, not pavement, and they usually go slow enough to take the time to eat solid food so they may not be as likely to get as close to glycogen depletion as marathoners. As more and more Marathoners turn to taking walk breaks, ala the Galloway method, the various negative effects of marathoning may diminish.

If you look at just mileage, basically it's a case of some running being a whole lot better than none, more a little better still, up to about 30 miles per week on average from the point of view of increased immune function, healthier joints, and cardiovascular benefits.

Once you get over 50mpw, on average, cardiovascular benefits start to decrease instead of improve, and the immune function and joint health, instead of being better, was actually worse than the typical couch potato, in one study that I saw. If you think about, this also makes sense. A little stress is good for the body and it gets stronger, but only up to a point. Too much stress doesn't make you stronger; it breaks you down.

http://This message has been edited by maryt (edited Nov-05-2005).

I think it's too hard to separate the mental and physical benefits.

I have a few marathons under my belt. I tend to agree with Maryt, I don't think running and/or training is exactly good physically for a person. I think I'd probably be healthier physically, if I ran my 4-5 miles a day. I don't think it's physically good to stress our bodies to point of being near depletion . But, I will do it.

Some people are obsessive and I'd rather be obsessive about running than drinking, gambling, food....whatever. So maybe I "overdo"....but there are some benefits to overdoing. I will NOT drink to excess when I know I will be running the next morning. I will not expose myself to smoky restaurants when I know I'll be running the next morning. I will not stay up too late, nor will I overeat.

I will be more aware of body's normal state. I will actually be able to detect illnesses and inconsistencies quicker because of taking a resting pulse in the morning, or because my run just "seemed" more taxing than it should. When I have the "blues", I will get out of bed because I really don't want to miss a training day.

So maybe I'm doing physical damage, but my running is helping me live.

Is anyone aware of any studies that have been conducted regarding runners and stretching? For several years, I resisted doing any stretching exercises. The lack of stretching most likely played an integral role in some of the injuries that I've sustained over the years. For the last couple of years, I've been doing an hour or so of yoga at least 5-6 times a week. Although I've also changed my running stride over the last 3 years which has allowed me to significantly increase my mileage base without injury, I definitely think the flexibility exercises (yoga) has helped tremendously as well.