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6 Replies Last post: Nov 16, 2005 10:41 PM by leon2  
Click to view milkbaby004's profile Legend 464 posts since
Jul 28, 2003
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Nov 14, 2005 1:55 AM

Is a taper appropriate?

Hopefully some of you have some input of value on tapering for marathons...

Specifically, what is the value of tapering for a marathon that you are not racing? I will run the Disney Goofy challenge in January: half marathon on Saturday, marathon on Sunday. I already decided ahead of time that I will not be "racing" either one. I just wanted to do it for fun and say I was one of the people to do it the first year they had the challenge.

My hometown is having a marathon in February about 5 to 6 weeks later, so I will run that too, and depending on my fitness, maybe try to chase a BQ. I don't think I have a chance right now, but you never know what will happen. Anyhow, the plan is that I will race this marathon hard if I'm feeling pretty confident.

So the big question is what kind of benefit is there to tapering for the first set of races? Would it be better to just run them as training runs without a taper? Is there any reduction in the chance of injury? Is it good for increasing stored glycogen? I'm not really running any set schedule for training, and will probably just run in the neighborhood of 55 mpw with 20 mile long runs and race off that mileage. The BQ is not that important; if push comes to shove, I'd just like to run the hometown race and feel decent about the effort.
Click to view bpj60609's profile Amateur 35 posts since
May 17, 2005
1. Nov 14, 2005 3:42 PM in response to: milkbaby004
Re: Is a taper appropriate?
"So the big question is what kind of benefit is there to tapering for the first set of races?"

None. Well, you'll probably run the half a little faster, maybe even the marathon the next day, too. It will, however, screw up your training schedule, so I can almost guarantee a slower "race" marathon several weeks later.

"Would it be better to just run them as training runs without a taper?"

Yes. If you can handle 39.3 miles over two consecutive days without getting injured or completely killing your legs, it's actually probably a good LSD-style run.

"Is there any reduction in the chance of injury?"

For what? The target "race" marathon? In any event, running 39.3 probably increases your chances of getting injured, both immediately after the back-to-back runs, and possibly also the target marathon--you might cause a nagging injury that is exacerbated a few weeks later.

"Is it good for increasing stored glycogen?"

Yes. This is the big benefit. You should definitely see some increase in glycogen storage capacity.

"I'm not really running any set schedule for training, and will probably just run in the neighborhood of 55 mpw with 20 mile long runs and race off that mileage."

If you think you can do it without getting injured, run the back-to-back runs. Don't race them. Treat them like your big long run before the marathon. Take an easy weekend the next one. Then do a long taper down to the marathon--if you have six weeks between the two, I'd probably do 12, 20, 18, 15, 12, 9, race on the weekends. If it's five weeks, then do 12, 20, 17, 14, 10, race on the weekends.
Click to view sedentiary's profile Expert 52 posts since
May 3, 2005
2. Dec 20, 2007 9:24 PM in response to: milkbaby004
Re: Is a taper appropriate?
If you try to run a marathon after an all out halfmarathon you are calling for problems.
Why enter both races at all?
It will take a lot of discipline to really treat the races as long training runs since you might get caught up in the race atmosphere to some degree.

I would not taper, race the halfmarathon and forget about the marathon.

Seems like the "Goofy challenge" is somewhat goofy.

http://This message has been edited by sedentiary (edited Nov-14-2005).
Click to view leon2's profile Legend 347 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
3. Nov 15, 2005 8:05 AM in response to: milkbaby004
Re: Is a taper appropriate?
It's hard to tell you exactly what you should do, since so much depends on your fitness.

If I were in your position, I would start now getting used to doing back-to-back long runs on the weekends, gradually building up. You might start out with 10/10, 10/15, ... until you've worked up to something like 10/20. Those are just examples. But you need to get your body to adapt to that type of pattern of back-to-back long runs. That is also where the improved glycogen storage capacity comes in.

If you check the 'long runs' topic, you'll see the Daniels 'bunching' method on page 2. You might want to give that a try too, doing some double workouts. The post explains how to do it and the benefits of it.

The recovery is key. I'm sure you already know about the 4:1 ratio and all of that. So be sure to get a lot of carbs after each of those training runs.

I would definitely taper, but not a full taper. Perhaps cutback in the week before. And of course, carbo load. There are some excellent tips in the 'fuel' topic. Something that I do is 'top off' my tank the night before a marathon, usually around 11-12 -- even though it might mean having to wake up to do it. It works. I use a high carb drink for that, usually 'Ultra Fuel'. You might also want to experiment with that for your training runs to speed up your recovery. Endurox is also a good supplement to use to help you recover.

As far as pacing treat each run, the half and the full marathon, as a progression run. Start out very slowly and gradually pick up the pace, but not much faster than your long run pace - especially for the half M. That way you're better prepared for the marathon the next day. Same thing. Progression run - no faster than long run pace.

Since your goal is not to race, those runs would serve as training runs, which you've already had plenty of practice with in terms of pacing, fueling, recovering, ... etc. And of course, do a reverse taper after you have completed them so that you will be ready for the marathon 5-6 weeks later. You can also check Hal Higdon's site for tips on doing multiple marathons.

Good luck.
Click to view Mikey the Pig's profile Expert 53 posts since
Aug 7, 2005
4. Nov 15, 2005 8:52 AM in response to: milkbaby004
Re: Is a taper appropriate?
I would not do an all out taper - plan on the goofy weekend being a higher mile running week, but maybe take it easier friday before the 1/2 marathon. I may look something like this:
Monday - off or resting 4 miles
Tuesday 8
Wednesday 10(Striders 10x100)
TH 6
Fr 4 (Striders 6x100)
Sat (13.1)
Sunday (26.2)

Total 67-71 miles for the week

Just an idea - substitute a day off on Monday and Friday if you would like.
Click to view leon2's profile Legend 347 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
6. Nov 16, 2005 10:41 PM in response to: milkbaby004
Re: Is a taper appropriate?
quote:<HR>Originally posted by milkbaby:
I had been thinking along the lines of Leon's advice of a reverse taper after the long week, so what would the benefits of doing a long taper be?<HR>

There are benefits to doing a long taper. You would be better rested, and in a better position to run fast. But running fast is not your objective, so a long taper isn't necessary. These are just training runs, preparing you for the real marathon 5-6 weeks away.

However, no matter how hard you run a marathon, it's still a marathon. But you've done a half marathon also. So there's an even greater need for recovery and refueling. And be sure to get enough protein.

Your reverse taper, since you plan on running another marathon, and have thoughts of possibly even a BQ, would look something like a bell curve -- none, to very light training, gradually increase, then decrease again for the next marathon.

For more information, see: Revcovering From The Marathon: The Reverse Taper[/URL" target="_blank">.

Good luck.