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Last post: Mar 26, 2009 9:47 PM by Tim__Bruns RSS
TigerCoach__8 Rookie
TigerCoach__8
6 posts since
May 30, 2007
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Nov 25, 2008 7:28 PM

Hit batter rule?

 

I have been coaching baseball for many years at many different levels and I have never had major trouble with the hit batter rule until now.   I and many other coaches I have spoken to believe the interpretation of the rule has changed and definitely not for the better.   Until this past season, I can't remember an umpire ever not awarding a hit batter first base unless it was completely obvious that the the batter initiated the contact.  Some of the responses I've received from umps when I question their call are as follows:  "I'm looking for the batter's feet to move to prove to me that he made a legitimate attempt to avoid being hit."  And, "I'm looking for a batter to be hit in the back.  Anywhere else and I seriously consider not awarding him first base."  And, "Any time a batter turns his upper body so that his front shoulder comes back toward me instead of just keeping his shoulders square and jumping back towards the on deck circle, I consider him to be turning into the ball and not trying to avoid being hit."

 

 

Where's the consistency?  Where's the common sense?  On average, a batter has to make up his mind whether to swing, hold up, or get out of the way when the pitch is 15 to 20 feet from the hitting zone.  If he hesitates even for an instant, he won't have time to react the way many umps seem to be expecting him to.

 

 

Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

 

 

anotherdjohnson Rookie
anotherdjohnson
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Nov 26, 2008
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1. Nov 26, 2008 10:44 AM in response to: TigerCoach__8
Re: Hit batter rule?

LIttle League rules require that the batter make an attempt to avoid being hit by the ball.  This requires the umpire to make a judgement which will depend on the age of the players, the path of the pitched ball, etc.  As is the case with all judgement calls it will be different for each umpire, day, game, player, pitch and so on.

 

 

It sounds like some of these umpires are trying to be consistent by making guidelines that they go by, whether you or I agree with them.  If your playing in a league, and this is a problem I would suggest discussing this with the league officials, perhaps they can work with the umpires to be more consistent, and help them with this.

 

 

 

Hope this helps.




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Southern12 Amateur
Southern12
12 posts since
Nov 3, 2008
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2. Nov 28, 2008 8:00 PM in response to: TigerCoach__8
Re: Hit batter rule?

 

I believe that the umpire would have to take in consideration what type of pitch and in what direction (meaning was it a little inside or really inside).  Being a power hitter and a catcher throughout my baseball career I have been hit countless times and also witnessed hitters being hit.  I can say that there were many times that regardless of what anyone says...there was no reason to attempt to move.  Hitters that get thrown inside a lot learn how to use "meaty" parts of their body to take the impact of a 80-90 mph fastball.  The side deltoid muscle took many hits along with the hip/buttocks muscle and AT NO TIME should a hitter EVER turn his back to the pitch!  I have never done this purposely because that is one of the places that actually hurt when you get hit...you see the other muscles that I mentioned above "deflect" or redirect a ball instead of absorbing the impact fully.

 

 

It is my opinion that unless a hitter actually moves into the flight of the ball he should be awarded first base.  But I have seen those hitters that "dive" into the plate as they swing.  These hitters generally have a closed stance and step in an angle toward the plate as they swing.  The pitch that they have most trouble with is the high inside pitch...so, a good pitcher "busts" them inside with heat and offspeeds them down and away.  These hitters sometimes can look like they are "stepping into the pitch."  If a pitcher has a live fastball...it sometimes gets away from him and tails too far inside and hits the batter that is stepping toward the plate.

 

 

The one "hit by pitch" instance that I never saw a consistant call is the ball hitting the hands or fingers.  I have seen it called a foul ball and seen umpires award first base to many.  The foul ball explaination was that the hands are part of the bat.  The other instances were plain and simple "hit batter."

 

 

 

 

 

anotherdjohnson Rookie
anotherdjohnson
3 posts since
Nov 26, 2008
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3. Dec 1, 2008 4:30 PM in response to: Southern12
Re: Hit batter rule?

Southern,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>> I believe that the umpire would have to take in consideration what type of pitch and in what direction (meaning was it a little inside or really inside). 

 

 

You bring up a very good point which I forgot to mention.  It definitely depends on the pitch, if the person had no reason to believe the curve ball was going to hit them, then they did have a reason to move, and so I would definitely give them the base.

 

 

 

 

 

>> But I have seen those hitters that "dive" into the plate as they swing.

 

 

If the batter gets hit by the play and swings the bat it is a strike, and the batter is not awarded a base.

 

 

 

 

 

>> The foul ball explaination was that the hands are part of the bat.

 

 

As I have always heard it described during clinics, etc. "I've never seen a bat that came with hands!"  The hands are not  part of the bat, however it can be very difficult to determine whether the ball hit the bat or the batter's hand.  I personally don't base  my decision on whether or not the batter is shaking their hand in "pain"  (not for older players anyway).

 

 

 

 

 

Also, if the batter hits the ball with the bat and then it hits the player, that is clearly not a "hit batter" either.




No sir, volunteer means I don't get paid.
PHL_Baseball Community Moderator
PHL_Baseball
44 posts since
May 30, 2007
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4. Dec 3, 2008 4:57 PM in response to: TigerCoach__8
Re: Hit batter rule?

 

I agree, I can't remember the last time I saw a batter NOT awarded 1B... I see guys take it for the team all the time and always get the base.

 

 

 

 

 

What is the correct Rule number for this? I'd like to read the wording.

 

 

MyTwoSons Community Moderator
MyTwoSons
96 posts since
May 30, 2007
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5. Dec 3, 2008 6:40 PM in response to: anotherdjohnson
Re: Hit batter rule?

An umpire awarded my son's friend 1st base on a pitch that hit his hands . When the opposing coach came out to argue it was a foul ball and that the hands are part of the bat, the umpire replied, "His wrist is broken and last I checked, bats are not sold with hands."

MyTwoSons Community Moderator
MyTwoSons
96 posts since
May 30, 2007
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6. Dec 3, 2008 6:44 PM in response to: PHL_Baseball
Re: Hit batter rule?

 

I believe If the pitch is over the plate the umpire shouldn't give the base and if the pitch would have been a strike, call it. 

 

 

TigerCoach__8 Rookie
TigerCoach__8
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May 30, 2007
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7. Dec 4, 2008 3:50 PM in response to: PHL_Baseball
Re: Hit batter rule?

 

In the MLB rule book it's rule # 6.08 (b).  In the Ohio High School rule book the wording is very similar and I think it is with certified High School umpires that the trouble began.  It seems that 1 or two years ago the OHSAA made a point to tell umps to pay closer attention to hit batters for fear that kids were being coached to "take one for the team" on inside pitches.  As a result, I think umps have since started to concentrate too much on the letter of the rule rather than the spirit of the rule.

 

 

My high school age summer team was facing a pitcher with an exceptional curve ball and many batters were bailing on it.  After a number of backward K's showed up in the score book I proceeded to ride the team hard about reading the pitch and staying in there.  One of my players who really struggles reading pitches apparently made up his mind he was going to follow my directions to the letter.  The pitcher through him a high inside fastball that the hitter watched as long as he could, which left him very little time to react.  At the last second the hitter realized the pitch was staying on a straight line for his left arm, so he flinched by turning his front shoulder back toward the catcher.  The ball hit him on the left arm and the ump called "ball".  I argued briefly with no success so the batter got back in the box making up his mind that he was not going to strike out on a next pitch curve ball that he was sure to get.  The pitcher thru another high, even farther inside fast ball that hit the batter again, as he flinched the same way.  Again the ump called "ball".  Let's just say that I think the only reason I wasn't thrown out of the game was because I didn't curse, and the umpire had some doubts about his call.

 

 

 

 

 

NA_Umpires Community Moderator
NA_Umpires
8 posts since
May 30, 2007
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8. Dec 6, 2008 8:59 AM in response to: TigerCoach__8
Re: Hit batter rule?

 

Sounds like the umps are LOOKING for boogers to pick and finding them.

 

 

I can tell if a batter is "taking one for the team"...but I've never kept a batter in the box on a hit-by-pitch. I HAVE called a couple of strikes when the ball struck the batter when it was also in the strike zone. That's the RIGHT call. But, on a pitch in the batter's box, unless he makes it completely obvious he's trying to get hit, he's going to 1b.

 

 

If the pitchers don't like it, they can stop throwing the ball in the batter's box !

 

 

Now, I also play over 30-ball and I get hit a lot -- I WILL "take one for the team" if I'm behind in the count (I'm not that good a hitter) and I've been called on it twice. Once it was justified. Once it was ridiculous -- a curveball hit me in the back of the head. This guy had a BIG breaker, and I'd bailed on one and taken a backwards K on the last at-bat, and hung in too long. Oh, well, I singled up the middle on the next pitch, so it all worked out.

 

 

I've also been hit on the hands and been BLEEDING and had it called a foul ball. Ump said "it hit the bottom of the bat" Um, yeah, AND my hand -- what did he think, I cut myself intentionally ? On that one the pitcher actually told me out loud "you know where the next one goes" signalling his intent to hit me in a playoff game, threw a fastball high and tight (basically at my chin), and I got nailed and screwed at the same time ! Why he wasn't tossed I don't know. It got pretty tense there for a bit.

 

 

Michael_Taylor Community Moderator
Michael_Taylor
53 posts since
May 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated
9. Dec 10, 2008 5:55 PM in response to: anotherdjohnson
Re: Hit batter rule?

 

As said already, your umpires are trying to have a basis for consistancy. Their standards sound incorrect and need work. The rule says the batter must attempt to avoid being hit, this is what they need to officiate. You can't use lack of moving their feet as failure to avoid. Leaning back is avoiding but your feet stay still. It sounds like your officials need to attend a good clinic.

 

 

Also, the type of pitches do have something to do with it. A hard fast ball may freeze the batter and he can't get out of the way. There's an old saying in the umpire business,"Sometimes you just have to umpire."

 

 

Tim__Bruns Rookie
Tim__Bruns
1 posts since
May 25, 2007
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10. Mar 26, 2009 9:47 PM in response to: TigerCoach__8
Re: Hit batter rule?

 

I will give the batter first with ANY effort to avoid the pitch (not moving into the pitch).

 

 

My question is "Does the batter HAVE TO go to First Base or can he elect to stay as a batter. 

 

 

... Situation - runners on 2nd and 3rd, best hitter is up - first pitch hits batters shirt (or b.) hits batter, - Can the batter request to keep hitting? I don't think the Pitcher should benefit by throwing at the batter?  YOUR CALL PLEASE.

 

 

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