Well, I missed the boat yesterday with a 20:16.
I'll keep following the thread's advice.

I think my downfall really was not knowing my pace - I couldn't see the mile markers.

I hit mid race and just tried to sustain the pace I had vs. speed up or slow down. I feel if I knew my splits then I wouldn't have had so much left at the end - I must have done a 14 second 100m and outkicked 4 people. I ran an 11.5 in high school - I have fast twitch muscles. Ran a 53 400m so you see why I'm struggling to get through the barrier? I have however improved 1.5 minutes in a year. Not bad.....

I just continue to wonder where I need to max out my mileage - I'm at 45pw now....

With 53 second speed you should be able to sprint a quarter mile, then stroll a quarter, then sprint again, and so on?. and still break 20 minutes. If I was you I would find a comfortable pace and just go with that. Then with a half mile or ¾ of a mile left just do an all out sprint until you are just exhausted. That would definitely get you those last 16 seconds. Typically a steady pace through the whole race is the best way to run. However, if you have that much speed but you are struggling with stamina then why not try to go with what you do best? I am surprised that with 45 mpw you don?t have the endurance to hold a much faster pace. How fast do you run your training runs?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by kgdmusic1:
Well, I missed the boat yesterday with a 20:16.
I'll keep following the thread's advice.

I think my downfall really was not knowing my pace - I couldn't see the mile markers.

I hit mid race and just tried to sustain the pace I had vs. speed up or slow down. I feel if I knew my splits then I wouldn't have had so much left at the end - I must have done a 14 second 100m and outkicked 4 people. I ran an 11.5 in high school - I have fast twitch muscles. Ran a 53 400m so you see why I'm struggling to get through the barrier? I have however improved 1.5 minutes in a year. Not bad.....

I just continue to wonder where I need to max out my mileage - I'm at 45pw now....<HR>

i have not done the intervals yet, got them lined up for next week. right now i am alternating intervals one week, tempo the next with a long run on the weekend (9 miles this past saturday). it is also prime rock climbing season (my first love) and i am trying to balance running 5 days a week with climbing 3 days a week (not enough freaking days in the week). i do my other weekly runs in the 8:50 to 9:05 range (about 70% MHR) so i think i got those down pretty good.

7:05 to 7:15 sounds like a good pace for tomorrow's tempo run. thanks Jim.

Great tempo workout yesterday. Warmed up and cooled down with 1.5 miles easy, ran 3 miles tempo in 21:20 (mile 1: 7:06, mile 2: 7:07, mile 3: 7:07 its nice to have a flat bikepath to run on with 1/2 mile markers to keep the pace even) and felt absolutely amazing. It felt "comfortably" hard and seemed to be just the right speed. Looked back in my training log and this tempo run seemed much easier than a similar one I did on September 6 where I ran at a 7:15 pace. 19:xx is going to be mine, all mine!!!

Thanks for the tips, Jim, are you a coach???

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jim24315:
I'd say 7:05-7:15

Did you try those intervals with slower pace and shorter recovery?

The key is to do these and your tempo runs regularly, often doing one of each during the same week. Because you are not hammering them you can string them together for weeks at a time without breaking down. If you throw in a weekly long run on top these you have a solid core. It is very important, though, to run easy on your in between days. Even though you aren't hammering, a long run, tempo run and intervals in the same week can wear you down if you don't run easy--I'm talking 8:40-9:00 pace and even slower somtimes, on your easy days.

I'll say it again--you don't need to hammer intervals at race pace and faster to bring your 5k time down. I went from 21:30 to 19:40 in less than 5 months at age 59 doing what I outlined above. I almost never ran goal or race pace during that period.

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Totally agree with Jim here. I stopped hammering intervals and focused on strong aerobic runs, tempos, some critical velocity reps and striders and my times for all races went down. I only do 2 key work outs per week which includes my long run. I include quality within my long run (MP tempo miles) or run it at a stronger aerobic pace i.e. 75-80% of max HR and then do CV reps the other other day of week or 3-6 miles of MP tempo work. This works big time.

I am a big believer in stronger long runs as your conditioning improves or as you approach goal races. If you do intervals and tempo runs 2 other days per week in addition to your long run, then the long run should be slower paced. My body can't take all three though which is why I do 2 quality. My other 2 days running are comfortable with striders.

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Jim, that 6x800@3:15 with 1:00 rest is a great workout. Here are the details from today's effort (1.5 mile warm up and cool down plus some strides to warm up):

1st 800: 3:18 100: 0:59
2nd 800: 3:16 100: 1:00
3rd 800: 3:15 100: 1:00
4th 800: 3:14 100: 1:00
5th 800: 3:15 100: 0:59
6th 800: 3:14

I felt great on the first 5 and felt a bit tired on the last one but didn't feel like this was an all out effort by any means. But man, those 1:00 rests are SHORT!!!

A little over 3 weeks till my goal race and I am feeling pretty confident about a sub 20 right now. Hope I feel this confident on race day...

If my foot holds out after my marathon on 11/5, I might try and run a 5k on 11/19. We'll see, I'm not to confident, but... I've done the following workouts..

2 x 3200m with 3 min Rest (13:09, 12:57)
12.5mile run with 2x20minTempos in there at 6:28,6:43 pace.
3x1200m+3x1600m all with 1 min Rest (4:55,4:55,4:54,6:33,6:33,6:27).

I just hope that my marathon training isn't going to eventually kill my body when I'm in such good shape. However, I haven't broken 20 in a 5k in a race yet.

Good running everyone - keep it up.

Here is my monthly, long-winded summary:

Goal for October was an 8K on October 15 in 34:xx. I met that goal with a 34:20 (6:54 pace). That was the time on my watch. Official time was 34:24 (6:55 pace).

This summer my race goals were 1) sub 20 minute 5K, 2) sub 28 minute 4 miler, 3) set a 5 mile Pr (35:11), and 4) run an 8K in 34:xx. During the summer, I missed the 5K, 4 miler, and 5 miler goals. The sub 20 5K ended up 20:58 (August). The sub 28 4 miler ended up 28:32 (July). The sub 35:11 5 miler ended up 36:05 (June). However, in October, I ran a 5-mile tempo run in 35:10 (one whole second better than my 5-mile race PR). I am not going to record that as a PR because it is not in a race, but I feel good about it. Also, in October's 8K, the time after the fourth mile mark was 27:58. I am going to say I accomplished all but the 20 minute 5K race goals this year. October was a very good month, indeed ... except ...

The month ended on a bad note - a bad head cold. I came down with it Thursday 10/26. It knocked me out. I did not run from 10/26 to last night, when I ran 40 minutes on a treadmill. Gained some weight too - what's the saying feed a cold, starve a fever - or is it the other way around? Going to get back at it. Average weight for October was 162.58. Weight after last nights run was 168 though.

I ran 113.5 miles in October (25 of 31 days). Here are the workouts:

Weekly long run: 9 miles @ 10:09 pace and 8 miles at 9:41 pace. Wished I did more, but due to the race and the illness only got two in.

Weekly tempo run: 5 miles @ 7:02 pace; 4.97 miles (8K race) @ 6:54 pace; and another 4 miler @ 7:14 pace.

Weekly (what I call) junk run: 5 miles @ 8:00 pace and 4 miles @ 8:23 pace.

The rest of the miles were easy or endurance pace - between 9:00 and 10:00 minutes per mile.

A couple other goals I want to meet this year:

*1,500 miles for the year. I have 1,234.82 miles so far. I'll need to run 133 miles in November and December - ten miles over my monthly average so far. I think I will be able to do it.

*Average weight for a month below 160 pounds. With Thanksgiving and Christmas coming up this one will be a challenge!

This will be my last monthly update. I am going to go into "base" mode. I am only going to run nine minute or slower miles, continuing with a weekly 8 to 10 mile long run. Once a month I will run a marathon paced or junk run (8 to 8:30 pace), but nothing faster until next year when I next train for a sub 20 minute 5K.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by MaineRunner2001:
Good running everyone. Congratulations on the sub 20's and sub 19:30's. It is interesting that the folks breaking 20 minutes are doing it on low mileage and/or while pushing baby carriages. You do not hear about those methods/strategies too often. All kidding aside, great work!

I have been posting monthly updates, so here goes:

Goal for September was to run every day of the month, and have average weight below 163: I ran 29 of the 30 days, so missed that one, but average weight ended up at 162.86 - so that was good. I have lost 9 pounds since January.

I ran 136.28 miles in September. Here are the workouts:

Weekly long run: 10 miles @ 11:01 pace; 8 miles @ 10:56 pace; and another 10 miler @ 10:17 pace. I run those keeping my heart rate below 130, so am happy to see the pace drop.

Weekly tempo run: 4 miles @ 7:39 pace; 5 miles @ 7:26 pace; and another 4 miler @ 7:11 pace. I run those with a heart rate above 165. Over the last few months, they have been in the 7:15 to 7:25 pace range, so the 7:39 and 7:11 were surprising.

I do not have a scheduled 5K coming up, so I stopped running half milers at 3:13 pace, but ran one junk to marathon paced run a week (155 to 160 heart rate): 3 miles @ 8:00 pace; 4 miles at 7:48 pace, and 6 miles @ 8:24 pace.

The rest of the miles were easy or endurance pace - between 9:00 and 10:00 minutes per mile, keeping heart rate between 130 and 150 (mostly high 130's).

The first week of the month was a cutback 25 mile week. The other weeks were 34 miles per week.

Goal for October is an 8K on October 15 - goal time: 34:xx. Goal for 2006 was to run 1500 miles. As of 9/30 I had run 1,121.32. If I average 29 to 30 miles per week, I will make it. Average miles per week so far has been just under 29, so it is going to require just a little more effort.

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