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Click to view jonpcar's profile Rookie 2 posts since
Dec 5, 2005

Dec 10, 2005 6:30 PM

Should I go for it or not? 1st Marathon goal of 3:30

Should I go for it or not? I realize that this kind of thing (a first-timer marathoner going for broke) raises nay Sayers and opponents like few other topics, but I have to ask because I still need the advice from those with experience. (Cross Posted on Runners World forum).

First, a little (well maybe a lot) background?I have run for about three years (a total of about 8-12 miles a week) to help lower my cholesterol . I even ran in a couple of 10Ks in 1993 and vowed never to race again (my 53 minute+ times were a physically and mentally exhausting accomplishment, not to mention a buddy of mine almost had to drag me the last couple of miles in the 2nd one).

Despite my vow, last June I decided that I would run the Arizona Rock and Roll (RnR) Half-Marathon on Jan 15, 1996. Slogging through my first 10 mile run (at about 6:00AM and a temperature of 95?its Phoenix, AZ), I couldn?t imagine doing another 3 miles to finish a half-marathon. In any case, about a month after I started, my wife talked me into targeting the RnR marathon (her argument: you are in better shape than you ever have been, go for it). With a little less than 6 months to go, I had to agree.

So, I became a little bit educated and decided I would target one of the intermediate schedules from Runner?s World. My initial goal was to finish the RnR in under 10 min/mi (<4:20). My first ?long run? ( a 14 miler in Sep) was a tough one. My 1st 20 miler averaged about 9:30/mi and my 2nd was 8:36/mi. So, I changed my target?my new target was to run a sub-4:00 marathon, a nice round milestone. Still 9+ weeks to go.

In November, I signed up for a 10K and targeted a sub-50 minute time. To my surprise, I finished in less than 46 minutes and felt I still had something in me. A week ago, I ran in a half marathon and targeted a sub-8:00 min/mi time. Once again, I beat my goal and finished at an average of 7:36 min/mi?but, that was definitely harder than the 10K. As you can imagine, the wheels in my mind started turning once again. The various online marathon time calculators seem to indicate that with those two race times, a marathon on the order of 3:30 (8:00 min/mi) might be possible. I know this is probably a really crazy thought, but that bring us up to date.

So, this week, I worked a bit harder and longer in my tempo runs and speed work. And today I had my 4th 20 mile long run. I wanted to test the waters and decided I was going to run an 8:00 min/mi pace. As many of you could probably predict, I kept on target for the first 16 and then promptly crashed and burned. The last four miles were a painful 9:15+/mi struggle.

End of story? I guess that?s where I need some advice. I still have almost two weeks before the taper and plan on training hard. So far, in my very,very,very limited race experience, it seems that race day is very different from training days (adrenaline, rest, etc). Of course, not having run a marathon puts me at a big disadvantage from knowing HOW different it is from the long training runs.

When I first decided to run the RnR marathon, my thought process was that it might possibly be the only time in my life when I might have the opportunity (time and ability). I am not thinking that anymore, but the time commitment will definitely be a drag on future marathon endeavors.

My heart says, ?Give it a shot, you don?t really have anything to lose.? But my head says, ?No way, this is a really stupid idea, get the first marathon under your belt and then take it from there.?

Ok, I?m done?but, for me, the question is still not answered. Should I go for it or not? Don?t hold back! All input, advice, and criticism will be greatly appreciated.
Click to view mykemp1971's profile Expert 46 posts since
Mar 10, 2004
1. Dec 20, 2007 9:32 PM in response to: jonpcar
I only have one marathon under my belt, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I ran mine with 2 goals in mind.

My stretch goal was to Qualify for Boston (didn't seem likely considering my best 1/2 was 1:35:43, and I needed a 3:10:59) but I had to give it a shot.

My second goal was to finish in 3:30 or under. I just missed this goal as I finished (chip time) in 3:31:05. I was still happy. I know I could have run it a little faster, and smoother, if I wouldn't have 'gone for it' and tried to put myself in the position of BQing. I ran the first half in 1:35:00 even, and the last half seemed to drag on forever.

That said, I'll offer the following. My last 20 miler, I ran 8 - 8:30 min/miles for 16 miles, then I opened up for 3 miles running 7:15's. I felt great, like I could keep going...

In the marathon, I got to mile 20, and I felt like someone hit me in the stomach with a sledgehammer. I don't think it's possible to feel any worse, doing something you love to do.

All that said, I believe you should follow your heart, and don't give up. If you think you have a shot at running a 3:30, there's no reason not to go for it.

That said, remember these things (from a fellow marathon newbie):

1) Don't be dissapointed if you see you won't make your goal, keep plugging away, finishing a marathon in and of itself is quite an accomplishment.

2) The race its self is much different than training (long runs). You will have race day adreniline, but you will also be pushing into unknown territory, your longest run is probably 20 miles give or take. That last 6.2 is a doozy.

3) The race doesn't start until mile 20. Try to stay comfortable until the 20 mile point.
In my race, I set a PR in the half... BAD idea... while I still felt like I had more in my tank, I didn't have 13.1 miles more... I hit mile 16 and started feeling really bad, once you start to feel bad, your form goes FAST!

Good luck!

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Myron [/URL" target="_blank">

http://This message has been edited by mykemp1971 (edited Dec-10-2005).
Click to view mrpat007's profile Legend 249 posts since
May 27, 2004
2. Dec 10, 2005 7:07 PM in response to: jonpcar
Jon,
I don't have a lot of experience in fact I just ran my first marathon on Nov 20, but my situation was somewhat similar to yours although I am probably a good bit older than you. I am 60. I have been running for almost 3 years. My goal when I started training was about a 4:10 to a 4:15 but on my first 20 miler, I had to run with some guys who were faster than me. They ran slower than their goal and I ran faster. I finished that run with an average pace of about 8:40/mile. I then changed my goal to 3:45. The rest of my long runs were about an 8:35 to 8:45 pace. I felt ready before the race but did not know what would happen after the 20 mile mark. I was advised by some to try and run faster but I decided to run conservatively. Since even with a 3:45 I would finish in the top 10 for my age group.
On race day, the weather was perfect, but I went out way to fast mile 2 was 7:13 and it felt slow, I had trouble slowing down and didn't really hit my pace until after mile 14. I did make several stops along the way, a prota potty of 3 minutes and stopped to wait for a friend. but even with that I was ahead of schedule. Around mile 20 my feet starte hurting and at 22 I stopped to undo a wrinkle in my sock which was killing my sore feet. That stop took about a minute and a half after that my hamstrings tightened up and I was a lot slower for the last 4 and finished in 3:50.
So I think you can do it if your long runs are close to race pace, but since the last 4 of your last long run was a struggle, you may want to go a little slower for the first few miles. And also make sure you hydrate and carb load before and then also during the race.

In any case goodluck.
Click to view Jim24315's profile Legend 1,978 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
3. Dec 11, 2005 4:29 AM in response to: jonpcar
jonpcar,

I wouldn?t worry about the fact that this will be your first marathon. The big question is whether your training is enough to have you ready in a month. Your recent half marathon does point to a time right around 3:30. However, the fact that you crashed on a recent 20-miler is somewhat troubling. Given more time, I know you are capable of 3:30 or better. As it stands now you are close at best.

?my wife talked me into targeting the RnR marathon (her argument: you are in better shape than you ever have been, go for it). With a little less than 6 months to go, I had to agree?

You are lucky to have such a supportive wife. Later you talk as though this would be your last hurrah and that you won?t have time to train in the future. I would strongly encourage you to do everything you can to find the time. You are just starting to come into your own. Those last couple races are an indication that you are on an improving trend. This could be just the beginning of a long stretch of improving race times and even better fitness.

I don?t know what you should do next month. I suspect you are still a little bit short on training. As I said, I do believe you have a 3:30 (at least) in you but it could take more time. If it were me and it was now or never, I think I?d run a practice 26 as soon as possible. I?d do the first 20 around 8:50-9:00 pace and try to run the last 10k at 3:30 pace (8:00 per mile). I definitely would not run the 1st 20 too hard with the race only a month away. This could help a lot psychologically and I believe there would be some physical benefit as well. Get some other opinions?this is somewhat of a radical idea but it?s what I would do. I did it before my first marathon and I think it helped.

Whatever you do, try to find time to keep yourself in shape. I can tell you from experience that it?s much easier to stay in shape that it is to get in shape once you?ve let it go for a while.

Good luck,

Jim[/URL" target="_blank">
Click to view cam0103's profile Amateur 18 posts since
Oct 22, 2007
5. Dec 11, 2005 2:18 PM in response to: jonpcar
I had the same background that you have mentioned...25-40 miles a week for six months before the marathon.
I had a 4130 10k a month before, a 131 half three weeks prior, and a 1930 5k two weeks out. My goal of breaking 4 hours was something I felt I had in the bag. I changed my goal to 315-325 (first) marathon. I finished in 405.
I can vividly remember the look on people's face when I had that as a goal...I shook them off and proved them right.
I don't want to talk you out of trying since I think a first marathon should be your own...but in the course of 26 miles a nine minute pace is much friendlier than 8. and especially 730. Good luck on the attempt. Do want your body tells you.
Click to view bigapplepie's profile We're Not Worthy 2,636 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
7. Dec 12, 2005 1:13 PM in response to: jonpcar
You can do it. It just depends how brave you are. If you are willing to risk bonking then go for it.
Click to view Coureur025's profile Pro 143 posts since
Apr 15, 2003
8. Dec 12, 2005 1:34 PM in response to: jonpcar
The major difference between that last long distance where you crashed and race-day : you'll be rested on race day (and what was the point of doing your long distance at marathon pace?). Big diffrence.

Also, you may want to bring such a huge event as a first marathon to more manageable bits: Run your marathon as 4 X 10ks (forget about the remaining 2.185k). Set a goal for each 10 k (50 minutes?). Once you've done the first 10 k "empty" your watch, forget about it and run the next 10 k. And so on.

Good luck - Taper well, and tell us how you did!