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6529 Views 29 Replies Latest reply: Jul 26, 2011 1:38 PM by MCM Ron Go to original post 1 2 Previous Next
  • RubyBPG Legend 1,604 posts since
    Jan 19, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    15. Apr 30, 2009 8:29 AM (in response to JerryX)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...

    To a fellow runner, Elizabeth: Rest in Peace. 

     

     

    Be safe everyone.





    http://mynewmarathon.wordpress.com

  • Immer treu We're Not Worthy 5,202 posts since
    Jan 23, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    16. Apr 30, 2009 10:05 AM (in response to RubyBPG)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...

    http://www.sha.state.md.us/exploremd/bicyclists/oppe/laws/acom_bike_laws3.pdf

     

    See particularly 21-504 and 21-506(b) in assessing her behavior as a pedestrian on a Maryland road; blaming her seems particularly inappropriate and unproductive.

  • Courir26 We're Not Worthy 1,968 posts since
    Feb 4, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    17. Apr 30, 2009 12:26 PM (in response to Immer treu)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...

    Out of curiousity, I googlemapped the road they seem to think she shouldn't be running on... yeah, I would've run it too! There's like three options around that school and from the map the road looks like no big deal.

  • lenzlaw Community Moderator 10,431 posts since
    Jan 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    18. Apr 30, 2009 12:35 PM (in response to Courir26)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...

    Obviously, trying to make the pedestrian (runner or otherwise) at fault is ridiculous. Stating so in print could provide additional basis for legal action.  Common law, if nothing else, makes the driver at fault. I'll give you odds his insurance company paid.





    Len

  • HALOjen Legend 1,305 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    19. Apr 30, 2009 1:08 PM (in response to lenzlaw)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...

     

    This story is so sad.  I wonder if there is a memorial fund established for her?

     

     

    So, after reading about this...I have questions...

     

     

    We are supposed to run facing traffic, right?  I think it would be horrible to run with traffic and not be able to see what is coming toward you.

     

     

    Also, when I do long runs, I find that my ability to stay alert diminishes especially in the later miles.  Kat, nearly pulled me out of an intersection this weekend!  Does this happen to anyone else? Why would this lack of attention occur at the end of a long run? Knowing this about myself, I prefer to do long runs on trails/paths that I don't have to share with cars.

     

     





    I will run for cupcakes!!

  • lenzlaw Community Moderator 10,431 posts since
    Jan 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    20. Apr 30, 2009 1:17 PM (in response to HALOjen)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...

     

    We are supposed to run facing traffic. They seemed to be saying it was her fault for being on the street in the first place.

     

     

     

     

     

    I know that part of hitting the wall is mental fatigue, going as far as hallucinations (of  various senses) in some cases. So diminishing mental alertness would not be surprising on a long run.

     

     





    Len

  • Stevemustangred Legend 681 posts since
    Oct 10, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    21. Apr 30, 2009 1:32 PM (in response to lenzlaw)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...

     

    I came very close to walking out in front of a car at an intersection on a highway with no cross walk.  The speed limit for cars was 65 and most do 70.  I know because I drive there too.  The problem was that the cars are going so fast that it is very hard for pedestrians to judge speed and it's almost impossible to hear them if you don't see them.  In this case the car had come over a slight rise and I didn't realize it was there.  I started to cross and just happened to notice the car (Angel on my shoulder!).  Scared the heck out of me.  There is no way the driver would have had time to respond. 

     

     

    Be careful, especially during races.  I have seen runners get hit during races.  I have also seen drivers driving on and crossing courses.  Sometimes drivers get confused by the placement of the cones or even directions from the police officers.

     

     

    I realize that I might have the legal right of way as a pedestrain.  But right of way must be yielded to me by the driver.  Even though I could argue the point in a court, I can't argue if my final seconds are spent converting myself into a hood ornament.

     

     





    Lies Spectators tell Marathoners:   1) Last Hill!    2) Almost there!  3) You look great!

  • KarlD_Navy84 Legend 879 posts since
    Jan 19, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    22. Apr 30, 2009 2:02 PM (in response to Stevemustangred)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...

     

    Good point Steve.  I would also be curious to know whether or not the driver was talking on a cell phone. It isn't against the law in Maryland if the driver is over 18.  But there is plenty of information out there showing that a driver's reaction time while talking on a cell phone is equivalent to what it would be driving while impaired, regardless of age.  And it doesn't matter if it's a hands free phone either.  That reinforced my habit of pulling over if I absolutely had to talk to someone.  Otherwise I just let the call go to voice mail.  Talk to you soon.

     

     

     

     

     

    Karl

     

     





    Karl

  • RubyBPG Legend 1,604 posts since
    Jan 19, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    23. Apr 30, 2009 2:17 PM (in response to Stevemustangred)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...

    I admit that I've had some close calls. I get so focused on running, that I sometimes have found myself crossing the road in front of a car. I need to be more focused on what's around me. I like how cautious you are, Nita. We should all expect that the driver doesn't see us. Let's be extra on guard out there!

     

     

     

     

     

    It makes me sick how the article blames the runner. HELLO! She'd be alive if there was no car involved!!





    http://mynewmarathon.wordpress.com

  • FormerBAM We're Not Worthy 4,378 posts since
    Aug 21, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    24. Apr 30, 2009 5:05 PM (in response to RubyBPG)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...

     

    Too many variables that we don't know.  Sure, the driver could have been on his cell phone, or eating a cheeseburger.  The runner could have had her iPod turned up and been switching songs and not paid attention.  Everyone gets distracted for various reasons, even if it's being lost in thought.  I still say it's up to US to take care of ourselves.  I'm with Steve:  It doesn't really matter who is right or wrong if you're the one that's dead.  Sure as heck not blaming this poor girl, just saying you can't jump to the conclusion that the driver would have been able to stop or maneuver in time, even if he had been attentive and driving the speed limit.  Wonder if another car was coming toward him in the other lane?  Wonder if the runner tried to jump out of the road?   Wonder if he encountered her over the crest of a hill or around a bend in the road?  We don't know.  It's sad for all.  Don't expect anyone else to be watching out for Number One except Number One.

     

     

     

     

     

    And then there are these:  I reported a deposition of a police officer in a truck/bicycle wreck yesterday (timely to our postings).  The cyclist was driving down a busy four-lane road at 8:30 p.m. in January (it gets dark at 5:45 in January in Texas) wearing dark clothing, driving a bicycle with no headlight or reflectors.  Lo and behold, an 18-wheeler hits him.  Some witnesses put him in the true roadway, some slightly over the line into the shoulder.  Miracle of miracles, he lived.  Barely.  And of course he is suing the truck driver and the truck driver's company for tons of money now.  Sorry, what part of dumbasss do you not understand, sir?

     

     

     

     

     

    I think the sickest part of this story is the newspaper article saying runner "at fault."  Totally unnecessary and possibly untrue.  Just because charges weren't filed against the driver doesn't mean she was at fault.  A-hole writer, idiotic editor.

     

     

     

     

     

    Thanks for letting me ramble.  As if you had a choice...

     

     

  • KarlD_Navy84 Legend 879 posts since
    Jan 19, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    25. Apr 30, 2009 8:15 PM (in response to FormerBAM)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...
    FormerBAM wrote:

    Too many variables that we don't know. Sure, the driver could have been on his cell phone, or eating a cheeseburger. The runner could have had her iPod turned up and been switching songs and not paid attention. Everyone gets distracted for various reasons, even if it's being lost in thought. I still say it's up to US to take care of ourselves. I'm with Steve: It doesn't really matter who is right or wrong if you're the one that's dead. Sure as heck not blaming this poor girl, just saying you can't jump to the conclusion that the driver would have been able to stop or maneuver in time, even if he had been attentive and driving the speed limit. Wonder if another car was coming toward him in the other lane? Wonder if the runner tried to jump out of the road? Wonder if he encountered her over the crest of a hill or around a bend in the road? We don't know. It's sad for all. Don't expect anyone else to be watching out for Number One except Number One.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Thanks for letting me ramble. As if you had a choice...

    Nita,

     

    All good points, especially the part about being responsible for ourselves. And while I do believe that everyone gets distracted for various reasons, the times that we really need to do everything we can to minimized those distractions is when we are driving (or running). As far as the three "wonder ifs" go, if someone is attentive and driving the speed limit, I believe good defensive driving skills can greatly reduce the chances of a bad outcome. Trust me, I am speaking from experience here. If a driver is scanning 4 -5 seconds out in front and driving an appropriate speed for the conditions, he / she can see just about anything in time to react to it. As you indicated, we don't know all of circumstances, but let's take the three you listed: 1.) Another car coming toward him in the other lane. With a good scan, the driver should pick up both the runner and the car with enough time to react. In this case, the correct move is to reduce speed (5 - 10 MPH for a few seconds would be enough) That will keep the driver from arriving right next to the runner at the same time the car passes. When it does pass, there would be enough room to maneuver if necessary. 2.) Did the runner try to jump off the road: Don't know. Odds are there was some distraction that kept her from taking action in time, and that is tragic. In this case, both parties need to recognize a potentially dangerous situation developing. Again, in the case of the driver, slowing down would have been a good move, in addition to flashing the high beams or hitting the horn to get the runner's attention. 3.) Going over the crest of the hill or around the bend: being aware of the situation is critical. Even if I am going the speed limit, I have gotten into the habit of dialing it back a little if going over a hill or around a turn on a two lane road. That goes a long way towards increasing reaction time.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    I throw out these suggestions because I have used them all at one time or another to avoid both objects and people while driving as a sales rep in all kinds of conditions. At the same time, we should be even more defensive while out running. My take? Both people came up short when it came to looking after themselves. Unfortunately, one of them is no longer with us, and the other one has the rest of his life to think about what he should have done differently to keep this tragedy from ever happening.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Karl





    Karl

  • MCM Ron Legend 1,916 posts since
    Jan 19, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    26. Apr 30, 2009 8:31 PM (in response to KarlD_Navy84)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...

     

    Here's another article from the local paper:  http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/display.htm?storyID=89621

     

     

    That road is no highway - it's your typical country 2-lane road. 

     

     

    So sad...

     

     





    To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.  (from my ice tea lid)

  • lenzlaw Community Moderator 10,431 posts since
    Jan 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    27. May 1, 2009 5:27 AM (in response to MCM Ron)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...

    Broad daylight, straight road, 30 MPH speed limit, not wearing headphones. Certainly begs the question. What happened?  Of course we'll never really know, but it sure makes you wonder.





    Len

  • Runn4liz Rookie 1 posts since
    Jul 26, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    28. Jul 26, 2011 8:20 AM (in response to goindownsouth01)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...

    Everyone's thoughts have helped so much.  I was Elizabeth's roommate in college, that day still haunts me on a regular basis.  The truth is, that almost all runners who attent the Mount have run along that road, it could have just as easily been myself or any of our classmates.  That is why we have set up a fund for a Memorial Trail at the university.

     

    Here is the link

     

    http://http://www.msmary.edu/give-to-the-mount/giving-opportunities/memorial_trail.html

     

     

     

    Be safe everyone

  • MCM Ron Legend 1,916 posts since
    Jan 19, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    29. Jul 26, 2011 1:38 PM (in response to Runn4liz)
    Re: A sobering note to pass along...




    To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.  (from my ice tea lid)

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