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Click to view brook trout's profile Legend 220 posts since
Mar 24, 2006
150. May 3, 2006 11:24 AM in response to: Jim24315
Hi Jim,

I think I'm in. The trouble is going to be finding a relatively fast 10K course in NC - traingle area - for the summer/fall. Does anybody know of one?

My last 3 races, all 5Ks, have looked like this:

20:53 (PR by 37 seconds)
19:59 (PR by 51 seconds)
19:39 (PR by 20 seconds)

All run in within a four week period in April and early May.

My training was pretty simple:

35-45mpw running 'by feel' all winter. I ran 4 or so interval workouts in March, and April, it was one interval session and two races - so, I've been doing one speed workout per week since early March.

I've also been doing longish progression runs upon occasion, mid-week - starting at jogging pace and culminating with a mile at or near 5K race pace.

On the weeks I haven't done the progression runs, I've done 'tempo runs' of three miles, though I probably run them too fast.

Not sure how I'll train for the 10K. I've never run a race longer than 5K. I should probably run at least one 10K just for 'fun', before I get too serious.



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Click to view MRCT's profile Pro 129 posts since
Feb 8, 2006
151. May 5, 2006 1:26 PM in response to: Jim24315
TChuck, I agree with your advice about starting slower. What I did in the 10k that DToce ran also, is when I got closer to the first mile marker, I checked my watch and immediately slowed a little. I wanted to pass the first mile in 6:20 and was able to do that. By slowing up a little and then keeping the same rhythmn, I had a lot left to run the second 5k in around 19:20. I think if you catch yourself early enough and slow down, you can avoid trouble. It also helped me that I knew the race course like the back of my hand. My house is on the course at about the 3 3/4 mile mark.

I also think that I am capable go going sub 39:00. There wasn't any point in the race where I was praying for the finish line. I was working very hard, but never too hard that I slowed up. I didn't have to do the "grab the shorts thing" bent over from exhaustion.
Click to view dtoce's profile Legend 383 posts since
Nov 10, 2003
152. May 5, 2006 6:18 PM in response to: Jim24315
quote:<HR>Originally posted by MRCT:
TChuck, I agree with your advice about starting slower. What I did in the 10k that DToce ran also, is when I got closer to the first mile marker, I checked my watch and immediately slowed a little. .<HR>



yeah, I checked my watch and immediately slowed too...except I'm the one with the 'sick to my stomach 'feeling...from starting too fast...ha

It always takes me a couple of races in the medium distance range to remember pacing. I don't have too much trouble in the 1-2Mile races. The pace is hard, then harder...but for 5K-10K, well, it's pretty hard, then hard, then harder, then sprint.

This week will be better now that I've practiced once, despite the fact it has a big hill in it.

Good luck to all!
Click to view capnr0n's profile Amateur 8 posts since
Jun 14, 2005
153. May 6, 2006 2:53 AM in response to: Jim24315
A bit of a set back in training this week.

Monday - 3.2 mile up hill, warm up followed by 3.2 mile downhill tempo run at 6:15 pace
Tuesday - 9.3 mid-distance run at recovery pace (8:30) (Right heel a bit sore)
Wednesday - 6.0 miles at recovery pace (Right heel screaming)

Thursday - Sunday rest the heal. I've had plantar fasciitis before, this doesn't feel the same. I'm hoping I've just bruised the heel from hitting the speed/mid-distance work too soon after the marathon in April.

I've got a week before my first attempt at sub-40. After two days, the heel is feeling a lot better. I'll give it through Sunday to play safe and see how it goes with an easy paced run on Monday.


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Click to view kudzurunner's profile Legend 523 posts since
Dec 6, 2007
154. May 7, 2006 12:25 AM in response to: Jim24315
Well, I got my master's PR today. Not sub-40--that won't be in the cards for another year at least--but I'll take what I did get: 40:48, a PR by 20 seconds and my first sub-41:00 since my return to racing in 4/03.

4th in AG in a very tough field; the three guys ahead of me were way out of my class.

Mile 1: 6:35 (exactly according to plan; gentle uphill much of the way)
Mile 2: 6:37
Mile 3: 6:42 (more uphill than down)
Mile 4: 6:33 (ran it with a 51 yr old who was also trying to break 41:00; we pushed...He ended up running 41:03 and winning $100 as the first grandmaster)
Mile 5: 6:47
Mile 6 + last .21: 7:32 (6:13 pace: mostly very gentle downhill, opening out onto the flats with a .4 mile wide open stretch. I left the 51 year old far behind.)

5K splits were 20:35 / 20:13

33 seconds faster than the same course last year. (It's certified: Corinth MS Coca Cola 10K.) Very satisfying to get this. When you're 48 and trying to improve every year, you hope a year will end on this sort of good note. It sets up the whole summer.

Easy mileage for a good long while now.....
Click to view gfunkster's profile Rookie 1 posts since
Oct 2, 2004
155. May 7, 2006 1:32 PM in response to: Jim24315
I think I'll join this one too! I know its page 7 but we're still in May so I've got a few months!

Just ran great edinburgh 10k this morning, 41:57 on a hilly course in the rain, but I think I had some more in the tank and with better pacing I can take a chunk of time off that. Have taken over 4 mins of my 10k PR in 20 months so I am improving! Current 5k PR is 19:47 and I will am aiming to take 30seconds (at least) off that in July, I think a sub 40 minute 10k is a realistic target for October, it's a big goal for me! Reading this thread has inspired me to commit for going for it and I will stay in touch! Am 30 years and I've been running for 2 years, good luck everyone with your sub 40's!
Click to view dcv2002's profile Legend 260 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
156. Dec 20, 2007 9:44 PM in response to: Jim24315
Well didn't quite get my goal of a sub1:30 HM, but considering my legs felt like cr*p yesterday Ill take my time.

Training 5/2-5/6 (Race was today, 5/7)

5/2 - 2mi wu(8:02p) + (4x1200m + 2min Rest, 5:08,5:06,5:05,4:56) + 1mi cd(8:02)
5/3 - Off
5/4 - 4.5mi (7:43p)
5/5 - Off
5/6 - 3.09mi (7:52p)

Race(HM): 1:30:43 (8:03 faster than last year)
(6:36/6:49/6:39/6:58/6:56/7:03/7:04/7:03/6:54/6:56/7:04/6:54/7:01/39)

Went out a little too fast for the first 3 miles (should have be at 6:51 per mile).
However set PR's at 5k(20:50), 10k(42:33), 15k(1:04:19), 20k(1:26:03). Also PR's at every mile from 5 up. Kind of annoyed about the 43 seconds, but at least it wasn't to qualify for something. According to VDOT its 50.45 which is about a 41:00 10k and a 19:47 5k. I guess Im getting there.

http://This message has been edited by dcv2002 (edited May-07-2006).
Click to view Southern Man's profile Legend 757 posts since
Apr 19, 2006
157. May 7, 2006 5:43 PM in response to: Jim24315
I ran my first 10k since returning to running about 1.5 years ago. I didn't think I'd get anywhere close to a 40, but thought I might go sub 42, at least. Weather was perfect, a little roll to the course but not bad. This was the Apple Blossom 10k in Winchester, VA.

Mile 1 6:54 (purposely lined up further back than I thought I should to keep myself from going out too fast)
Mile 2 6:28 (13:23) This was downhill, but probably picked it up a little more than I should have, tried to moderate my pace
Mile 3 6:49 (20:12) Felt good, hooked up w/ a guy to pace with. Still moving up in the field
5k (20:52) a little slower than I wanted, but not bad. When I went over the mat, I think I overstrided. My right hamstring, which had been a little sore in training, suddenly pulled and pinched. I slowed down and even thought about quitting then, but decided to try and hobble through, as my kids were waiting at the finish line.
mile 4 7:28 (27:20) that wasn't good. Actually started to feel better, though and decided to try to catch the people I had let get away from me. hamstring was sore, but as long as I kept my stride short, it didn't bother me much the rest of the race
mile 5 6:48 (34:09) Better
mile 6.2 8:01 42:10 watch time, 42:18 gun No starting chip mat.

Pretty pleased by that time considering my difficulties. Didn't quite make my stretch goal. Need to be mentally tougher, I gave back a lot of time that 4th mile over a little twinge that was not nearly as bad as I thought.

It's a long way from 42:10 to sub 40, but I think I will make it with a solid summer of training. I am still early in my running career and still on the steep part of the improvement curve.

Southern Man

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Click to view kudzurunner's profile Legend 523 posts since
Dec 6, 2007
158. May 7, 2006 10:21 PM in response to: Jim24315
Way to go, all!

Southern Man:
You will indeed get where you want to go. My own return to racing after 19 years as an indifferent jogging began with a 10K exactly three years ago. I'd trained since December. I ran 47:10. Nineteen years earlier I'd run 35:50. I simply could not believe a) that I'd lost so much, and b) that running that slowly could hurt as badly as it did.

My next 10K, a month later, was 48:13, a meltdown. Now I was REALLY puzzled.

By that October I'd lowered it to 43:35, but was still puzzled.

dtoce and others at coolrunning who'd done the return-to-running thing assured me that it would come down further.

A year later I lowered it to 41:35.

In March 2005 I lowered it, on a very flat fast course, to 41:09.

Now, May 2006, I'm down to 40:48.

On the one hand, I supposed I should see the writing on the wall and realize that sub-40 just may not happen.

On the other hand, I'm even more intrigued now than I was three years ago. I've lowered my 5K from 22:05 to 19:30 in three years. I'm finally beginning to figure out how to train hard without breaking down. I'm curious about what will happen if I boost mileage, run easier, perhaps average 55-60 for a couple of months. I've averaged 45 mpw for 2-3 months, but more than that seems like unexplored territory. (I ran that much in my early 20s, averaged as much as 65 mpw, ran a 2:53 marathon off that.)

Non-runners probably can't understand how tantalizing it is to wonder what's around the next corner. It's that feeling of "I keep on feeling if I just get everything right, I'll do _______." That's what keeps me going.

Here's the truth: the further I travel down the comeback road, the more I begin to learn the subtleties of training and racing, the LESS agonizing the races become. I've spent more time in training running race pace intervals and above; I've made myself unafraid of anaerobic pain--which is not to say it doesn't still hurt, but it doesn't come as a disillusioning shock, the way it used to when, relatively untrained and having forgotten all my race instincts, I'd attack hills hard during races and end up at HR max, gasping, hurting, confused. Now I know how to take what modest conditioning I actually have and deploy it intelligently.

You'll certainly bring your times down. Give it time, though. Have a long range plan. Especially early on, it's better to do slightly too little than slightly too much. I did slightly too much and didn't run for three months due to a tibial stress fracture. Less is more, until those bones have re-hardened.
Click to view slimfastshady's profile Pro 66 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
159. May 8, 2006 3:48 AM in response to: Jim24315
Hi all, still trying to find a 10 k locally but no luck so far.

Absolutely flying in training, longest "long run" of the year so far yesterday and felt great during and after ( 10 miles - 1hr 9 min). Total for week - 33 miles.

Sets me up nicely for my first race of the year next Sunday - Sportsworld 5 Mile classic - I ran it last year in 32.10 and the aims are 1) to beat that time and 2)allow me to assess my current state of fitness.

Good training to all,
derek
Click to view Southern Man's profile Legend 757 posts since
Apr 19, 2006
160. May 8, 2006 6:37 AM in response to: Jim24315
Thanks for the encouragement, Kudzu. I was a high school XC and track runner. An off and on, mostly off, fitness jogger in my 20s and early 30s. Started running seriously 1.5 years ago at 34. I am focused on marathons, since I always wanted that challenge and I didn't want to chase my 5k PR and get frustrated. I don't know that I will ever be that fast again, but I already have more endurance.

I have been averaging 60 mpw this year, all of it easy. I have only done one workout so far this year, with an occassional run around marathon pace. I do have to be careful, I've missed 3 months w/ two bouts of ITBS. Plan is to do a little jogging until this hamstring is better, than start fall marathon training.

Good luck to all out there.

Southern Man


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Click to view kudzurunner's profile Legend 523 posts since
Dec 6, 2007
161. May 8, 2006 9:27 AM in response to: Jim24315
Quick question for those here (and others looking in) who have broken the 40:00 barrier:

What was your fastest 5K in the training cycle that produced your sub-40 time?

I'd like to be able, at some point in the future, to say, "I've just run a 19:__ 5K, so I'm ready to crack 40." Tell me what time I need to notch in order to have that confidence.
Click to view Doug Holmes's profile Amateur 24 posts since
Oct 16, 2007
162. May 8, 2006 9:44 AM in response to: Jim24315
I ran a 19:11 5K five weeks before I ran 39:42 10k.
The 5K was five weeks after a 3:19 marathon.
Click to view baggio16's profile Pro 87 posts since
Aug 14, 2002
163. May 8, 2006 10:54 AM in response to: Jim24315
quote:<HR>Originally posted by KudzuRunner:
Quick question for those here (and others looking in) who have broken the 40:00 barrier:

What was your fastest 5K in the training cycle that produced your sub-40 time?

I'd like to be able, at some point in the future, to say, "I've just run a 19:__ 5K, so I'm ready to crack 40." Tell me what time I need to notch in order to have that confidence.
<HR>


I think you need to run about a 19:30 to have a good shot. I ran a 19:18 in December then I broke 40:00 in April. I ran a really bad race and ran a 18:50 over the weekend.
Click to view dtoce's profile Legend 383 posts since
Nov 10, 2003
164. May 8, 2006 11:06 AM in response to: Jim24315
0/2...but this was equally expected...

Ran the Granby 10K race yesterday. My lifetime PR is at this race last year=40:55. Yesterday, I ran 41:29. I ran 54 miles this week, no taper and did not really consider this my 'goal' race as I want to train all year and set PR's in the fall. If they happen along the way, great. If not, I'm ok with it as long as I can give a good race effort in the fall after a nice, unbroken training stretch. Hopefully that will include another attempt at the marathon.

Did taper better, but ran my track cutdown workout on Thursday too fast and tweaked my hammy. Ran 1200M/800M/600M/400M/200M/100M in
~4:30/3:03/2:13/1:25/36s/16s

Did neuromuscular training on the day before the race with reps at 10mph on the TM (2%grade) x 6 for about 15sec.

Both of these may have pulled the hammy a bit and I was never able to open it up at the race. I did start slowly this time, but couldn't put the hammer down. And to top it off, I fell again, just like last year, on the trail. Couldn't have cost me more than a couple of seconds and a tiny bit of my pride...ha.
splits=6:4x/6:3x/6:3x/6:4x/6:4x/6:4x/1:22=41:29.
--don't have the exact splits with me--'ll edit it later)

So, this is where I'm at. Gotta heal up the leg and get to starting the real training soon.

Keep at it!

PS-Kudz, you're going to break it this year, for sure...
as am I...