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Click to view denton083's profile Pro 199 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
15. May 26, 2006 1:19 AM in response to: NEMSrunner
..I would agree that continuous running will/can work...i term them 'tempo fartleks', but there r so many variations ie 30sechard-30 sec med, or one of my personal af avs of 8 x 3mins hard-2min med...i find sessions like this work well to get u to a certain level and espec for marathons, but they also lack the certain extra intensity that puts one over the edge for serious racing (that IMHO can only be achieved by hard intervals).....
Click to view donnyl's profile Legend 590 posts since
Nov 9, 2007
16. May 26, 2006 3:54 PM in response to: NEMSrunner
quote:<HR>Originally posted by exciton:
Ten miles at HM pace is a hot workout, but you let yourself off the hook with 5K left to go. So?[/B]<HR>


Wasn't that the point of the workout? Otherwise it would have been either a race or a time trial.
Click to view exciton's profile Legend 317 posts since
Nov 2, 2004
17. May 26, 2006 5:05 PM in response to: NEMSrunner
quote:<HR>Originally posted by laker:
Wasn't that the point of the workout? Otherwise it would have been either a race or a time trial.<HR>


Didn't mean to imply that stopping short was bad. Quite the opposite. I meant that it would be a viable workout since you are not going to whole distance. Apologies for garbled message.
Click to view fredurie's profile Legend 1,979 posts since
Aug 21, 2002
18. May 27, 2006 1:08 PM in response to: NEMSrunner
Canova:

'I have no doubt : marathon. Of course, this doesn't means that he has to run top marathon TODAY. The Olympic Champion, Baldini, ran his first marathon in 1995, Venice, in 2:11, finishing no. 5, at 24 years of age, and became Olympic Champion 9 years later. Personally, I don't think that marathon runners must start to prepare full marathon when are old. The question is : do you have talent for running marathon in your life, or not ? Because is not true that ALL TOP RUNNERS of 10000m have real talent for becoming competitive in full marathon. So, OR YOU CAN BE A MARATHON RUNNER, and in this case start very early your preparation in that direction, OR YOU CANNOT, and in this case is not a problem of age.
You can become a top marathoner, able winning also tactical races, only after 6-8 marathons in your career, in different conditions. Experience is something fundamental in this event. Of course, there is also some exception (for example Gharib, World Champion in his 2nd marathon), but normally you need not less than 4 years (that means from 6 to 8 marathons) before knowing well the secrets of managing the event. You must know yourself without doing the mistake of pretending too much, or to be afraid of distance and other competitors. If you want to win a race of 10000m, never you can lose some meter, because after is not possible to recover. If you want to win a marathon, you must look at yourself, not at the other runners.
With a modern way of training, Ritz can move to Marathon already for Olympic of Beijing, running one HM fast this year, may be one full marathon for learning, without forgetting 10000m. In the preparation for a full marathon, for an athlete yet young coming from the track, the secret is not TO REPLACE SOME WORKOUT OF SPEED WITH LONG RUN, BUT TO ADD LONG RUN, TO INCREASE THE VOLUME OF FAST INTERVALS (not the speed) AND TO EXTEND THE LENGTH OF LONG INTERVALS AT MARATHON PACE OR LITTLE BIT FASTER.
Some example, starting from short distances :

a) 10 x 400 in 60.0 with 1 min recovery can become 15-18 x 400 at the same speed during the first 2 years, then 20 x 400 in 62.0 with 40.0 during the next 2 years, then 16 x 500 in 1:18 with 1:00 during the 5th year. When you become a FULL Marathoner, you can yet run 15 x 600 in 1:36 with 200m recovery in 50.0. SO, FOR 5-6 YEARS, YOU HAVE TRAINING OF INTENSITY FOR IMPROVING ALSO 5000 and 10000m

b) 10 x 1000 in 2:45 with 200m jogging in 1:30 of recovery can develop in 12 x 1000 with 200m in 1:00 in 2 years, then 12 x 1000 in 2:48 with 400m in 1:30 for other 2 years, then in 10 x 1000 in 2:50 alternated to 1000m in 3:10 the next 2 years (that means 20 km in 1 hr). YOU HAVE YET TRAINING FOR RUNNING HM IN 60:00.

c) 4 x 3000 in 8:30 rec. 3:00 become 5 x 3000 in 8:40 rec. 1 km in 3:40 after 2 years, 7 x 3000 in 8:50 rec. 1 km in 3:25 after 4 years, 5 x 5000m in 15:00 rec. 1 km in 3:20 after 6 years.

Of course, because with this system you have numerous types of training, you must use intensity only some time, giving more modulation in your training. "
Click to view SportiGrl's profile Legend 476 posts since
Jul 22, 2004
19. Jun 2, 2006 11:05 PM in response to: NEMSrunner
Andy ... regarding your thoughts on 16 mile limits on marathon (or near marathon) pace runs during training ... I have a personal question for you ... there is a locally run 20-miler as part of the marathon training series for a marathon I might do this fall ... it's only 3 weeks before the marathon ... if I run it should it be at planned marathon pace or slightly slower? Or possibly treated like an average LR with negative splits after the halfway point up to marathon pace by the end?


Any thoughts on this would be appreciated ... the funny thing is that the marathon is not a big goal for me this year but if my milage can support it I will do it to get my first under my belt ... BUT, the 20-miler is part of a Grand Prix Series I am doing and at this point I'm near the top for my age group and really want to do fairly well at it ... It's odd that the training race is actually more of a goal than the marathon in my situation! LOL
Click to view exciton's profile Legend 317 posts since
Nov 2, 2004
20. Jun 5, 2006 2:59 PM in response to: NEMSrunner
quote:<HR>Originally posted by SportiGrl:
Andy ... regarding your thoughts on 16 mile limits on marathon (or near marathon) pace runs during training ... I have a personal question for you ... there is a locally run 20-miler as part of the marathon training series for a marathon I might do this fall ... it's only 3 weeks before the marathon ... if I run it should it be at planned marathon pace or slightly slower? Or possibly treated like an average LR with negative splits after the halfway point up to marathon pace by the end?


Any thoughts on this would be appreciated ... the funny thing is that the marathon is not a big goal for me this year but if my milage can support it I will do it to get my first under my belt ... BUT, the 20-miler is part of a Grand Prix Series I am doing and at this point I'm near the top for my age group and really want to do fairly well at it ... It's odd that the training race is actually more of a goal than the marathon in my situation! LOL

<HR>


Sorry I'm not Andy, but he appears to be out of pocket at the moment. Just and idea: if it were me, I would aim to run the distance as fast as I could. Since it appears you have plenty of time to recover, I don't personally see an advantage to backing off.
Click to view SportiGrl's profile Legend 476 posts since
Jul 22, 2004
21. Jun 5, 2006 9:35 PM in response to: NEMSrunner
thanks, exciton ... hopefully by that time I will have a concrete idea of whether my main goal is the 20-miler or the marathon and that'll ease the decision on goal pace ...

racing the 20-miler would put me at the outer limits of the day-per-mile recovery from a race going into the marathon, if I do it this year ....


anyways ... thanks, again, for your thoughts on this!