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20 Replies Last post: Jul 9, 2006 7:48 AM by oar096   1 2 Previous Next
Click to view hepsedam088's profile Rookie 6 posts since
Jun 17, 2006
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Jun 17, 2006 12:43 PM

5k Race Help - I'm breathing too hard!

Hello: What is the best training workout to improve my breathing? I have a set goal of a 20:00 5k and I am working towards that. As I have improved my times, I have noticed on the last two races I have been breathing WAY too hard after about 1.5 miles. I mean really gasping!

I ran a race this morning and my time was 24:18 (on the beach in sand?a slower surface). Three weeks ago, I ran a race and my time was 23:50 (road surface). On both of these races, my legs felt very strong and I was able to really improve the pace during the last 800M or so. However, my breathing is totally out of control. I seem to have a higher discomfort threshold that allows me to move my legs, despite my lungs telling me to STOP.

So what workouts will best help me improve my aerobic system? I need to get my breathing under control between the 1.5 and 2.5 mile marks. Any specific suggestions? Thanks!
Click to view michemouse's profile Rookie 4 posts since
Feb 16, 2006
1. Jun 17, 2006 12:58 PM in response to: hepsedam088
Re: 5k Race Help - I'm breathing too hard!
I don't know about workouts for it because you sound like you are doing endurance and all enough. But there are a few techniques to reduce your breathing rate.

1) During practices try to focus on breathing through your nose (obviously you will not be doing it all through your nose but this concept help you to open up your chest some) You should NOT close your mouth in trying to do this.

2) Focusing on expanding your chest when you breath in can help to increase exercising lung capacity as well.

3) sometimes breathing quickly is a matter of nervousness. Though it might mess with your motivation thinking of a cool quiet place or closing your eyes for a few seconds and breathing deeply can help to reduce nervous energy and decrease breathing rate.

- As you increase your fitness your breathing will improve as well. The body naturally regulates breathing with MANY complex mechanisms both chemical and mechanical based on your blood and workrate so I wouldn't be too worried about breathing hard - you're working hard. If you find that you are "out of breath" or having "difficulties" you might think about seeing a pulmonolgist or going to your primary phys to screen for 'athletically-induced asthma'. Even if you do not or have not had asthma in the past it is possible to develop it due to certain stressors that your physician can discuss with you.

-Good Luck to you! Its the most awesome feeling to finally break that 20 minute time.
Click to view Viich's profile Legend 326 posts since
May 27, 2004
2. Jun 17, 2006 2:04 PM in response to: hepsedam088
Re: 5k Race Help - I'm breathing too hard!
I would guess that you aren't aerobically fit enough for your strength.

Run more.
Click to view MikeBro's profile Pro 156 posts since
Apr 26, 2002
4. Jun 20, 2006 1:35 PM in response to: hepsedam088
Re: 5k Race Help - I'm breathing too hard!
quote:<HR>Originally posted by hepsedam:
My problem is that when I race at currently a 7:45 pace, I am totally out of breath at that pace. But I can always push through and tough it out for 3.1 miles. However, I can't possibly expect to improve my times breathing that hard for most of the race.<HR>

Firstly, you can't be totally out of breath or you wouldn't be able to run. You're having heavily labored breathing, right? That's not all that unexpected for a 5K. Just because you may be pushing yourself harder than those around you, doesn't mean there's necessarily anything wrong.

Secondly, at what paces are you running your intervals on your interval day? And how many of each do you do, typically?

Thirdly, I would take one of your 36-minute runs, which you currently run at exactly the same pace as your 60-minute runs (thus giving you 4 identically paced runs out of your 5 weekly runs), and turn it into a short tempo run. If all you have is 36 minutes, warm up for 10 minutes (at 9:00-10:00 pace), run 20 minutes at 8:00-8:15 or so pace, then cool down for 6 minutes. I think you need to get a decent, hard, sustained effort in every week to prepare for your 5Ks. If the longest hard stuff you currently do is 1-mi intervals (once every three weeks?) and you struggle in races after 1 mile, get some longer hard stuff in there regularly.

FWIW,
Mike
Click to view kudzurunner's profile Legend 523 posts since
Dec 6, 2007
5. Jun 20, 2006 2:15 PM in response to: hepsedam088
Re: 5k Race Help - I'm breathing too hard!
I admire your willingness to come here and ask basic questions--and I admire the conviviality of coolrunners; if you'd asked the same question at letsrun.com, you'd be full of thrown knives, and leaking, right now.

The answer to your query is both quite simple and fairly complex. You've set a goal of 20:00, and goal-setting is indeed an essential part of racing well. But as far as I can tell, that goal--as a short-term goal rather than a two-year goal--is quite out of line with your current abilities.

Here's the simple answer: your breathing rate is way out of line because you're running the first part of the race at a much faster pace than you can possibly average for the totality of the race. Your intemperate early pacing is spiking your heart rate, not just your breathing rate. In fact, it sounds as though you're maxing out fairly quickly: running the first mile of your race like you'd run a hard 800 interval, achieving maximum heart rate, then slowing until the pain (and breathing) is barely manageable and running the remainder of the race in that pained condition. That's bad racing.

Skilled racers--and I consider myself a skilled racer, although not a particularly fast one--can race 5Ks around 95% of max HR. (I'm a consistent sub-20 5Ker, by the way: not by much, but still.) But the difference between 95% and 100% is huge. And it's important to feel the difference, and avoid 100% until, at most, the final 800 or so. The worst possible way to run a race is to max out early, then try to "hold it." You're dragging a high anaerobic load with you the whole way. That slows you down AND hurts more than starting easier and finishing harder.

So far I'm just speaking to how you're actually running the race. But that's where you should start: by forcing yourself, in your next 5K, to run the first mile at the AVERAGE pace you were able to sustain last time around. This will actually be a little slower than ideal, but it will transform your race experience. You'll actually warm into the race, feel what it's like to work towards a hard-but-sustainable pace, even in a race of that relatively short length.

Bit by bit, you'll figure out how slow/fast to go out in that first mile in order to run hard-but-sub-max through the 2 mile point. The differences are subtle, but real. When you learn what 95%--or 92%--feels like, you'll learn how, for example, to flow up hills in mid-race, rather than attacking them and paying the price at the crest. (Later on, of course, you can think about race tactics; first, though, you need to get yourself under control.)

Then, of course, there's the question of training. For good 5K racing you need an aerobic base, some tempo work (sustained 20-30 minutes at a pace that works you hard but DOESN'T let those telltale flames burst through your chest), and some 2:00 - 3:00 intervals at race pace. A 22:00 5K is about 7:00 pace. But you may actually be a bit slower than that. I think you'd greatly benefit yourself for the next little while by running intervals of various lengths around 7:30 pace and getting really used to what it feels like to work at that pace.

As for aerobic work: well, your 60 min runs @9:00 pace are a good start. Combine them with 20-30 minute tempo runs at, say, 8:00 or 8:15 pace. And be patient! You'll achieve your goal, by and by.
Click to view kudzurunner's profile Legend 523 posts since
Dec 6, 2007
7. Jun 20, 2006 6:28 PM in response to: hepsedam088
Re: 5k Race Help - I'm breathing too hard!
It depends on the runner. 85-90% of max HR is a good guideline. Tempo runs for 5K racers should probably be done near the higher end of that, but runners unfamiliar with what a good tempo run feels like should probably start at the lower end. What's crucial, in either case, is to have a very accurate sense of your own max HR. Best way to get it? Wear a HR monitor, run ANY kind of tempo-ish run for about 20 minutes. Then finish with a very hard 800 meters or so, pushing as hard as you can. Whatever shows up is pretty darn close to your HR max. But I'd run this test more than once, always striving to notch one more heartbeat. (Don't kill yourself, of course. Just run very, very hard.)
Click to view Viich's profile Legend 326 posts since
May 27, 2004
8. Jun 20, 2006 8:35 PM in response to: hepsedam088
Re: 5k Race Help - I'm breathing too hard!
Kudzu: Great advice.

hepsedam... There's plenty of time for more running in your workout schedule without adding any more time to it.

quote:<HR>Here is a typical week:
2 days are rest or swimming or hiking
2 days are weights + 36 min run @ ~9 min./mile
2 days are 60 mins. running @ ~9 min./mile
1 day of intervals either 1M, 800M, or 400M

This is usually about 26 or 27 miles per week.<HR>


I would suggest you might get more in by replacing the intervals with a tempo with warm-up and cool down. (Run 2-5km slow or long run pace, run ~4km in ~20 min, run 2-5km slow)

You could also ditch the weights and run a 6th day.... if you want to.

From personal experience, I was training about like you are about a year ago. I put in a lot of time running from August-May (even just 30-50mpw), and just ran a huge PB for 5 miles on a tough course (29:34)


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Click to view Tchuck's profile Legend 554 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
9. Jun 21, 2006 9:45 AM in response to: hepsedam088
Re: 5k Race Help - I'm breathing too hard!
Great advice above. Yes, you are starting too fast in your races and you should also do a slow warm up jog for a mile or more before a race or time trial. A couple other suggestions

Your daily training runs are a bit fast or only 1:15 above your race pace. You are running your training runs closer to a marathon pace tempo run. I would slow them just a bit to 9:15 - 9:45 pace. I think you need more aerobic training work and your paces are too fast.

I would also caution you to not do many 5K races in training. Running on a beach at 5K race pace is asking for trouble potentially. Every now and then do a time trial but it is better to just find a 5K race. You perform better on race day than in a training run I believe.

Do you know your Max HR? It is beneficial to know this for training paces.

Do tempo run once per week at 20 min at around 8:20-8:25 pace or 88-90% of max HR or 30-35 min. at 8:45 pace or 85% of max HR. Rotate each week.

One other day per week you can do critical velocity intervals which for you are about 25-30 sec. per mile slower than 5K race pace or a pace you could maintain for 45 min. or 8:10 pace. 5 X 1K or 6 X 800M. I think these can enhance your base while the 400M fast intervals will take away from your base. You aren't really putting in enough miles to support a lot of fast anaerobic running.
http://www.peakrunningperformance.com/docs/Critical_Velocity.htm[/URL" target="_blank">

All other running days are comfortable or around 1:30-2:00 below 5K race pace. You can throw in some quick 100M striders 2 X per week with full recovery at end of runs to help with running economy and fast twitch activation without affecting base development



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Click to view ahmusely's profile Expert 53 posts since
Jan 10, 2006
10. Jun 27, 2006 11:53 PM in response to: hepsedam088
Re: 5k Race Help - I'm breathing too hard!
Hi everyone,

I am actually quite experienced with Daniel's formula... I also have a coach. My problem is breathing out of control as well. Sometimes it just feels like my lungs won't open up. Other days my lungs open beautifully and I just coast. I have been racing through this labored breathing the whole time. I run with a heart rate montior and I tell you when I'm at say... 160 HR (my max is 191) I can get crazy out of breath! Then other days it's not until I'm at like 175 that I'm out of breath like that.

For me some days it's a weird combo of heavy legs and lack of ability to "catch my breath." Other days the legs aren't heavy but the breathing is horrible.

I have been running with a coach, as I've said and we can't figure out what it is. My heart rate is where it should be, my pacing is where it should be.... breath control is horrible. At the end of races where I push really hard it feels like I'm going to throw up and I think it has to do with the breathing? Please help me too!
Click to view ahmusely's profile Expert 53 posts since
Jan 10, 2006
11. Jun 27, 2006 11:59 PM in response to: hepsedam088
Re: 5k Race Help - I'm breathing too hard!
I should add that when I start running races my nose runs! I am always afraid that the race photo people will take a photo of me wiping my nose on my arm! haha

The other thing I want to add is that my breathing isn't just labored but it's LOUD.

like I said we can't figure it out because my pacing is right where it should be... so is my heart rate
Click to view Steve45's profile Amateur 11 posts since
Oct 27, 2005
12. Jun 28, 2006 11:40 AM in response to: hepsedam088
Re: 5k Race Help - I'm breathing too hard!
Hepsedam, what KudzuRunner said. Only thing I'd add is that if you could juggle your schedule to accomodate it, one run of 90 minutes a week at easy pace would also help build your aerobic capacity.

Running411searcher, get thee to a doctor to be evaluated for exercise-induced asthma.
Click to view ahmusely's profile Expert 53 posts since
Jan 10, 2006
13. Jun 29, 2006 9:20 AM in response to: hepsedam088
Re: 5k Race Help - I'm breathing too hard!
Thanks for the info Steve. What kind of doctor should I go to? I am a student so the only place i can go to is like a student health clinic unless I suggest to the clinic for a specific type of doctor/test. Do you know the name of the test or should I just see my primary care doctor? I've never had asthma in the past... but the breathing problem goes back as far as I can remember...
Click to view bigapplepie's profile We're Not Worthy 2,636 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
14. Jul 3, 2006 1:43 PM in response to: hepsedam088
Re: 5k Race Help - I'm breathing too hard!
Can you post your typical weekly training routine?