This NYTimes article is simply sad.

Where is the dividing line ?   Maybe the 2.45 finisher thinks the 3.30 is a "plodder".

Maybe the attitude should be "What no BQT  ..... why are you wasting my time ?".   Where does athletic "purity" begin ?   Ms. Given with her 4:05 is

sufficently confident to pontificate on where the athlete/non-athlete line is to be found ?

When finishing a race it makes no difference who is finishing behind you,  If there must be a cut off time I am happy to leave this to the race director ... meanwhile go back out and cheer anyone and everyone else on.   Many of the plodders may be lcoals who are directly or indirectly paying for/tolerating the event take place.  It's precisely the growth of the marathon and other running events that gives the marathon it "cache" today.

As to the argument that the "plodder" take the place of those who train ....  how do you know the 5-6 hour finisher has not trained ?  I know somewho gave it all at the finish line when she realised she could get in at under 6 hours and chalked up a 5.59.  She's now on marathon seven - and has clipped off as much as 15 minutes on subsequent attempts  and medalled in her age group in a 5k  this summer.

Truthfully I have never met any elite athlete who thinks like this - frankly it is the "wannabes" who want to exclude the rest.

So really - those complaining about the "plodder" - grow up.

People lining up at inappropriate positions at the start are a problem ( as are headphones, dogs, potholes, rain, icing aroung the water stations, lost traffic, kids on bikes etc.)   but it's as much a fact of like as aggressive driving in traffic on the way to the race (yes, I mean you blue Hummer on I-78 in NJ yesterday).   Truthfully beyond the 10k distance it should make little difference to a finishing time and certainly is not enough of a problem to start barring people from the race.

It's the acknowledgement of the slower runners which lifts me when I've done well.   They know what it takes and few events would be much fun without the numbers who come out - and they come to see, and man water stations for, their plodding friends but they'll give me a cheer too.

Sorry but this really leaves me steamed.   The "mystique" of the marathon .... please don't look behind the curtain.  Rather look at the faces in the crowd.

". . . that those who stop to walk, even momentarily, should be ushered off the course . . ."

I'm not quite sure what that means.  No offense, but after only one marathon, I don't think that's a call you're qualified to make.  You clearly haven't had a muscle cramp, or turned your ankle a mile from the finish.  Many things that happen in a marathon have no regard for how well you've trained.  Yes, it's a running event, but that doesn't mean you have to run every step.  No one wants to take 5 or 6 hours or longer, we'd all love to run 3:30 or so.

On the other hand, participants who start ahead of their pace are a bane for all of us. Same for groups who run, or walk, 6 or 8 or 10 across.  At the MCM Sunday, several women (from a certain charity group) linked arms and blocked the entire starting chute.  Luckily they were behind me.

Len

Since today was the NYC Marathon (and I'm a former New Yorker) I was doing some reading today on the NYC Marathon website and came across this inspirational article by Mary Wittenberg of the New York Road Runners:

"...Let me share New York Road Runners’ side of the debate as to whether "plodders" have a place in the marathon. Our answer begins with this: Both the term “plodders” and the question posed miss the essence of the beauty and power of the marathon...

We don’t encourage people to walk the marathon or to take 8 hours to complete it. It is a running event after all. But, it is 26.2 miles – a huge challenge – no matter how fast you are. Ask most marathoners – we’ve all been humbled by the distance at some point....

A marathoner is a marathoner regardless of time. Virtually everyone who tries the marathon has put in training over months, and it is that exercise and that commitment, physical and mental, that gives meaning to the medal, not just the day’s effort, be it fast or slow.  It’s all in conquering the challenge..."

Check out the full article at

http://www.ingnycmarathondaily.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=64:missing-the-essence-of-the-marathon&catid=42:the-marathon&Itemid=71

". . . that those who stop to walk, even momentarily, should be ushered off the course . . ."

Hahahahaha Haaaaa.

That's an ignorant statement. There is a video of the women's world record holder, stopping during a 2005 marathon to take care of business.  Would you have her pulled off the course. 

I have seen numerous marathon winners/elites (sub 2:30s) stop and take short walk breaks during the later miles of a marathon.

You can't possibly understand what you are saying.

I don't judge runners based on their pace because I don't know their stories.  It takes a ton of courage to get out there and put it on the line.  Many of the first time runners are scared.  They aren't getting support from their families who think they are crazy, but they are there and they are doing it.

1) How many runners dropped 50, 150, 200 lbs during training for the race?

2) How many runners are battling cancer and suffering with chemo during the race?

3) How many runners were hit by cars during training for the race?

4) How many runners had heart attacks six months prior to the race?

5) How many runners are running on broken bones and stress fractures?

6) How many runners are in pain, not only for the last 6 miles but for the whole 26.2?

To me - DNF is the thing to avoid, but I'll never ever criticize someone else.  At least the showed up and are making an effort.   The worst thing is finishing like Phidippides.

But, don't get me started on mixing up marathons with halfathons and race etiquette.

I’ve never run a marathon, but I am training for my first half now.  After reading this article (and some of the posts), I was a little upset.  It made me feel like I shouldn’t even try (that feeling didn’t last long as my determination got the better of me).  I am definitely not a fast runner and will probably never qualify for Boston, but I wouldn’t let that stop me from running.  To say that slower runner shouldn’t be allowed to run a marathon is absurd.  There are races for elite runners, those who are looking to place.  Those who think “plodders” shouldn’t run marathons should just stick to those!

To reiterate what others have said, you don’t know what a runner has overcome in training, or what they are feeling while running the marathon.  Not all of us are natural runners, and most of have to work really hard just to run more than a few miles.  That doesn’t make us less deserving of crossing that finish line and feeling that joy!

Mary  I believe that you are wrong in your statement  that all people are expected to run these events.   MANY events have places on the forms to indicate if you will be walking or running the event.  MANY events welcome walkers even if you don't.  Some people walk at a faster mph than others run.   Most people will at least get blisters if they go out and walk 20 miles out of the blue with out any training.  In todays society  even youth have motorized cars to drive around in!  Many people who get overweight than resort to electrical convenience vehicles to help them get around.   Again my opinion is that anyone who is out there trying to participate and exercise at whatever level of fitness they are at has my support and encouragement.  We all start somewhere!

Marykb said- I know I will hear some flack for this, but IMO it takes little or no training to walk a marathon (disclaimer:  I am referring to average, healthy people, not those with physical disabilities, injuries or other limitations.)

I absolutely wholeheartedly agree with this statement. I am not trying to be rude to those that have to work their way up to be able to even walk a marathon, but anyone somewhat athletic in decent condition could go walk a marathon tomorrow if they were told they have to do it. Frankly, I think a normal athletic person could walk a good 30-40 miles without training. That doesn't mean for someone else who was really out of shape and worked their way up to being able to do this that doing a marathon isnt a great accomplishment. Its just a different accomplishment. I also understand that when someone says they did a marathon and said they walked it that a little part of me says-oh, that is not as real a marathon as MY marathon. It doesn't mean I am right. It is just what I end up thinking.

This whole discussion has such a fine line to it. Everyone is right in their own way. Everyone is their own running snob in a certain way.

The earlier comment of if you have to stop during a marathon then you didn't really run it was a little ridiculous. I played college athletics, think that quitters are the worst thing ever, but even I thought that statement was out of line and completely out of touch with what really happens in a marathon. That being said, until i was able to run the entire marathon like I did this last time on my third try, i didn't feel like I had really run it yet either. But I stopped for gatorade a couple times and worked out a 5 second cramp at mile 23. I also made sure to never put that 26.2 bumper sticker on my car until i was able to run the marathon the whole way through because I didn't feel like I did my best until I broke thru the wall and ran the whole time.

Steve, I'll try to overlook your challenging tone and reiterate that I (or any other reasonably fit person) could walk 26 miles at any given time.  Yes, it would take several hours.  Yes, I would feel tired when I'm done.  But I could do it.  If you are in reasonable shape (you exercise on a regular basis) you could do it too.  In fact I'll turn the challenge around - try it yourself, you may be surprised!

(PS.  Think of all the people who participate in the 60 mile Breast Cancer 3 day walks.  I'm sure many of them don't have time to "train" extensively for a long walk like that but yet they do it!)