quote:<HR>Originally posted by ljwoodw:
But this actually supports the OP's point. Bill Rodgers is one of the best American marathoners in history. The very things he advises people NOT to do might have been the same things that got him to the top. It's like Jeff Galloway - he was a great runner, but the training he promotes isn't the training that got him there. Maybe these were "stupid" things, but they didn't apparently didn't hurt them any.<HR>

Not going for the older but wiser, I see. In the conversations I've had he's been talking about succeeding despite doing some stupid things, not because of them. They might not have hurt his overall career, but some did cause setbacks in training, or being stale for races, not a good thing to happen when you are going for the win every time.

BTW, you're still a few years under 25, I think, and your brain still has some growing to do in those judgment areas, so I suppose you can be forgiven for the subway comment, but really... Good thing I had just finished my coffee, or it would have ended up all over my keyboard, I laughed so hard!

This is a very interesting thread. BTW, I am posting only because the thread showed up on the main coolrunning page, because I am definitely not a mainstream racer. I am a SLOW runner. I don't think that necessarily makes me a "comfort" runner, though....

A few reactions: on the newbie board, the ones emphasizing safety are not the new runners, but the long-time runners who hang out there to give advice. The new runners are often about pushing as hard as they possibly can and to pick up as much speed as they possibly can, as quickly as they can. Of course, they often get injured because of this - you can see the posts in progression. "How can I improve my speed?" Long-time runners will post and say, "Don't start speedwork until you have a decent base." The new runner will argue with the long-time runners. Then a few weeks later, the new runner will post, "How do I deal with this injury?" Seriously, it happens over and over. I saw a thread on way cool running by a very talented girl who wanted to run every training run as a race. People were trying to caution her but she wouldn't listen. So it's the old-time runners who are cautioning the newbies, and frankly for good reason. Frankly, I don't think they are advocating "safety" as much as good running strategy.

This may have nothing to do with mainstream racers specifically, but I do think that the emphasis on safety is because lots of people get hurt doing too much, too soon. Is it an overemphasis on safety? I don't know.

The derision toward "comfort" runners is interesting. I just wanted to let you know that many slower, newer runners are not pushing for entertainment, etc. We just show up to races and it's there. My favorite races have been small 5ks and 10ks held by running groups. No entertainment whatsoever. My most hated race by far was the Epcot Race for the Taste 10k. Also, many slower/newer runners do not have the idiocy to run their first marathon in their first pair of running shoes. (I really like the way you said that, btw - I am going to use it, if you don't mind.) We know it's not safe .... (sorry, couldn't resist.) So while I don't like the derision toward "comfort" runners because I vaguely feel you are putting down anyone who is not super fast, I also recognize that there is good reason to be annoyed with people who don't take racing seriously and don't treat serious distances with the respect they deserve.

Now I have to go b/c I have to put in my time on the hotel treadmill before my trans-pacific flight this morning!

Safety is obviously a good thing, but I think it can be pushed to the point of adversely affecting training. The key to training is pushing yourself as hard as you can without getting hurt. I know that seems obvious, but I get the sense that a lot of people have forgotten that.

At 20, I definitely erred on the side of overtraining. At 45, I probably err slightly on the side of safety, mainly because it takes so long now to come back from an injury. To be honest, I've been trying since 1975 to find the right balance, and I'm still not sure that I've got it right.

I think it's pretty natural for younger runners to push their bodies past their limits, and I don't even know that it's a bad thing, provided the occasional physical breakdown helps establish what those limits are.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by cruxjuris:


By RACING I just mean TRYING TO COVER THE DISTANCE AS QUICKLY AS YOU CAN. You can be a fast racer, a slow racer, a well-trained racer, a badly-trained racer. But be a racer. It takes a starting line, an arrival line, a clock.
Comfort People have other priorities along the way: food, entertainments, water stations every-mile, T-shirt, perks, medals for everyone, scenic courses etc.

<HR>

This is interesting. I am not sure I totally agree that it is only "comfort runners" that like the food and water stations, or the t-shirts. I love the t-shirts! I do feel a bit ambivalent about the finisher's medals. For a marathon or half marathon, absolutely. But for a 5k? I'm not terribly against them but I remember getting mine and I thought, wow, that's me and 6000 other people who ran this 5k who got this.

Here's a bit of different perspective on comfort runners, from someone at the back of the pack. The reason I hated the Race for the Taste 10k (Epcot) so much was that many of the people who lined up back with me (or actually in front of me, since I passed htem), were really there for a social event. They would be 4-7 people alternating walking/running, all in a row, so it was difficult to get around them. They were definitely not "racing" because they were loudly talking, laughing, etc. - something that you can't really do if you are giving it your all-out. I found these people were totally focused on themselves and therefore were totally unaware of the runners around them. I don't know why, but I just found it extremely annoying. I felt like saying, "This isn't a social gathering, it's a race!" I felt a little guilty for thinking it, but I definitely did not like it and vowed not to go back to that race. I have NOT experienced this at any other race, including the huge Gaspirilla races in Tampa. Yes, you see a little of that, but most people really are focused on the race.

The other thing is, I've seen many charity runners who are working their butts off. I don't know if it's fair to group them all together as "comfort" runners. They are sweating, they are breathing hard, they are really working, even though they are slow. Of course, I have only run a 15k up to this point, and I understand that half marathons and marathons especially attract charity runners. I have no experience with that yet.

One last thing that I thought of: those "social" runners (maybe that is a better term than comfort runner?) actually are doing going things for their health. Yes, I find them very annoying, but I should be glad they are out getting exercise. The obesity crisis in the US costs the economy a lot of money, so anything that promotes better health should be encouraged. I guess the way around this is for me to stick to non-Disney races so that I don't have to be caught in the crowds of social runners?

Some good stuff to think about!

quote:<HR>Originally posted by cruxjuris:
[b]... Had to cut short

The needs of Comfort People are jacking up entry fees. Nowadays, you have to have marathons in the heart of major cities. Who would dare to carve a course in the industrial / weekend-empty areas of towns ? As you said, race directors are giving what a majority of participants wants. If I want to join, I'm requested to pay extra $ for stuff unrelated to what road racing requires. I decide. No big deal. It is just too bad that Comfort people are getting amateur road running competition events to be redesigned according to their needs.
Money talks I guess[/b]<HR>

Times change, and in this case I think for the better. More people are involved and hopefully living a healthier life. Personally, I much preferred the old days when everyone who showed up was serious, but you can still be as serious as you want to be and others shouldn't get in your way. I don't see how your "comfort people" have any affect once the gun goes off. Maybe you're mad because you think being a serious runner ought to mean something. Guess what? It doesn't now and it didn't then. If you want to be a serious racer, do it for you, that's all that really matters. There are plenty of races for everyone. But always remember the most important thing.........be safe.