Don't time your pace on your long run, it's basic endurance ... and it will probably be a little slower since your body is more tired from the extra interval work ...

I can't remember which sources but I've read in a number of books/sites that you should keep similar workouts (endurance, basic speed, VO2Max) 3-4 days apart for maximum benefit and avoiding overtraining ... this allows body to recover and adapt to the specific energy system improvements you are training for ... and you also need to alternate hard and easy days; so don't do your LR the very next day after an interval session, or if you do, take 2 easier days directly afterward ... that's been the general concensus on the information I've found on the topic ...


I haven't seen the RW workouts but I followed a Pfitz-based program loosely and it called for a LR and LR2 (2/3 distance of LR, approx) along with a VO2Max or Tempo paced run and then a basic speed workout each week ... So endurance and basic speed occured every week and VO2Max or Lactate threshold occured mostly on alternate weeks or sometimes in different phases of the build-up to the race (LT near the beginning of the training schedule and VO2Max near the peak performance) ... I saw steady improvements and also increased my distance of race over the summer and ended with a marathon in October following this type of set-up - never dropping the speed workouts even when heading to the marathon ... racing every 2-3 weeks for the most part ... 5Ks - 10Ks -15K-10 miler- some more 10Ks - 20 miler - marathon ....

that's how my experience went and I hope you have similar success with your training ... it's sounds good to me and just make sure to space those harder workouts and let yourself run slower if need be on those LRs!

Happy Running!!!

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Originally posted by mrinertia:

I do intervals on Mon and Thur with a Saturday long run. I

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Slow down for the interval session on Thursday.  Then you should be fully recovered for the Saturday long run.

I hate to tell you but on your low mileage, your training may be counterproductive. I know, I trained like you and did fine but it wasn't until I slowed down some of my runs and cut back a lot of my fast intervals is when I got faster because I got more aerobicially fit. Your training is too fast and too much fast for your miles. You need to base your training pace off of your current level of fitness not your goals. A 5K race can help determine your training paces or your upcoming 10K.

If you are adamant about running your long runs faster, then you have to ditch one of those interval sessions (Thur). Because with 2 interval sessions, you have to do your long runs at least 1:30 slower than 10K pace and preferably closer to 2:00 slower. You will be all torn up and not strong for your race at your current training method.

Now, one other solution is to ditch the Thurs interval session and run EZ. On Saturday, within your long run, finish the last few miles at 9 min pace progressing to 8:30 pace the last mile and then do some striders.

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Todd[/URL" target="_blank">

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Originally posted by mrinertia:

Thanks. It's difficult for me to think of a workout as "too fast". I figure if I can do it, how can it be too fast, assuming I don't get injured?

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Running fast in daily work outs is "racing". Save your racing for "the race". When you race in training, your progress will ultimately halt and you will become stale, burnt out and most likely injured. You are putting out hard efforts several times per week without the aerobic base to support it.

Think of the analagy of weight lifting. Lets say you want to get stronger in your bench press. Would you work your chest to the max most days of the week. NO! You would not absorb the training and grow from it, just continue to break down. Most power lifter work their chest hard once and maybe twice per week and recover the other days and get stronger during these days. Recovery is the key to success.

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Todd[/URL" target="_blank">

The reason the advanced schedule has two workouts a week is that they have assumed as an advanced runner you have put in the kind of base mileage necessary to handle that volume of quality work.
The long run at a decent pace has its purpose.  I like a staged run where you run different paces for each block of mileage.  Some call this a progression run.  But the long steady run has a purpose to.

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Originally posted by mrinertia:

Ok, so how does this sound:

Saturday: 12 mile long run
Sunday: off
Monday 5-7 recovery
Tuesday: 7-9 mile with 4-7 at tempo pace
Wednesday: off
Thursday: 7 miles
Friday: 5-7 miles

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My thoughts:

5-7 miles 'recovery' runs, too long for your recovery runs at your pace. Keep these within 40 minutes.

Tuesday, if you find the tempo portion too demanding or you're running that tempo pace too slow, reduce the tempo portion to 3-4 miles, the rest of it is warmup/cooldown.

Friday, limit to 5 miles.

toss some strides into the thursday run, it'll help with leg speed.

edit: for tempo pace, refer to McMillan's calculator[/URL" target="_blank">, it looks like you should do it somewhere between 8:30ish and 9:00 minute pace if you're targetting a 52 minute 10k.

[http://This message has been edited by JimR (edited May-08-2007).|http://This message has been edited by JimR (edited May-08-2007).]