Am I Stale? ...

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73 Replies Last post: Jun 11, 2007 7:15 PM by tuscaloosarunner Go to original post 1 2 3 4 5 Previous Next

tuscaloosarunner

728 posts since
Apr 7, 2006

15. May 13, 2007 11:06 AM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Abadabajev:
I cannot say it any better than usghswhittie but here it goes;

When you drop your mileage too much the week of a race, your body 'THINKS' it's over. That's why I've always recommended that you take your recovery week(50miles) from 14 days out to 7 days out. And the week of the race, you do sharpeners(100m sprint 100 float), a short TT, striders, and jogging.

<HR>

Here you Aba: again, as you know, my best race come from this.

But here's what stumps me: during the week of the race, what volume should one put in. For instance, it may not be such a good idea to run 90 mpw, would it? And if not, 2 weeks of recovery and 75 mpw wouldn't be so hot, correct?

And would this hold true for a longer race: say a half during a marathon build-up?

Abadabajev

231 posts since
Oct 4, 1999

16. May 13, 2007 12:05 PM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by tuscaloosarunner:
Here you Aba: again, as you know, my best race come from this.
But here's what stumps me: during the week of the race, what volume should one put in. For instance, it may not be such a good idea to run 90 mpw, would it? And if not, 2 weeks of recovery and 75 mpw wouldn't be so hot, correct?
And would this hold true for a longer race: say a half during a marathon build-up?
<HR>

There is nothing in the world you can do to improve your fitness the week of your goal race (end of May). Too little or too much mileage is not good. I think we talked about the mileage you that you should cover after your aerobic buildup. I gave you a formula to work with if I recall correctly(take the avg of your last 6 weeks of high mileage and apply a % factor).

I prefer you peak first on Memorial day. Then we can discuss as a group how to handle a 1/2 during marathon buildup.

Such high mileage that you have done for your buildup takes awhile to show up(Arthur said what you do now will show up next season). If you re-read one of fredurie's post, he did between 140-150 miles per week for 15 weeks in the winter of 1981.

tuscaloosarunner

728 posts since
Apr 7, 2006

17. May 13, 2007 12:46 PM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Abadabajev:
There is nothing in the world you can do to improve your fitness the week of your goal race (end of May). Too little or too much mileage is not good. I think we talked about the mileage you that you should cover after your aerobic buildup. I gave you a formula to work with if I recall correctly(take the avg of your last 6 weeks of high mileage and apply a % factor).

I prefer you peak first on Memorial day. Then we can discuss as a group how to handle a 1/2 during marathon buildup.

Such high mileage that you have done for your buildup takes awhile to show up(Arthur said what you do now will show up next season). If you re-read one of fredurie's post, he did between 140-150 miles per week for 15 weeks in the winter of 1981.

<HR>

Hey again Aba,

Yup, I stuck to the % last week, and took the recovery the preceding week (though that recovery week, I raced when I shouldn't have as I'm coming to see). This week I was on schedule to hit the % again, but after Sat. race, I was dead--so I didn't double. Today, I took a simple straight-up hour run...Needless to say, I won't hit the % this week...

So, I promise, this week recovery; next week, if the legs are back, same thing as St. Pat's Day race week back in March.

Fair enough about the mary stuff...Will recover after May and June races for a 2-3 weeks, and then start thinking about Fall mary.

Thanks, again, for everything. Mucho appreciated.

tuscaloosarunner

728 posts since
Apr 7, 2006

18. May 14, 2007 7:47 AM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by usghswhittie:

At least you aren't having to do what Josh McDougal of Liberty is doing this season: 13:20 5k, 1500m/5k/10k triple at conference (winning), 28:xx 10k, 1500m/5k/10k triple at IC4A's (winning at least the 5k and 10k with less than 25 min rest between the two) in consecutive weeks. He's good, obviously, but maybe just a little crazy.<HR>

That's really, really sick.

The SEC's Champs were here this weekend, and I thought this cat was kind of nuts:

Barnabas Kirui So Ole Miss

R, 10,000: 30:07
SA: 3000 Steeple: 8:33.59
SU: 5000: 14:06

Granted, this was still a couple weeks off the Nats, so who knows what this kid will be running for them.

MRCT

129 posts since
Feb 8, 2006

19. May 16, 2007 10:51 AM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

Tusca, I just wanted to share what happened to me in December. November and December I was just running base mileage to get my mileage up to the 60 mpw range, which is high for me. I was doing no speedwork at all. In early December I ran a 3.5 mile race at 5:41 pace, with a big hill at the end of the race. That was a huge breakthrough for me. My fastest 5k pace before that was only in the 5:50s. Guess what I did during that week leading up to the race? I kept my normal workouts, base mileage with one tempo run on Wednesday (race was on Sunday). I ran 10 miles the day before the race at a steady training pace. It did not effect me at all in the race. I have not been able to duplicate that effort since, despite 4+ months of solid training. The breakthrough may have been due to running the race with a friend, who offered to pull me along, but I still had to run at that pace. I was not tired at all from the 10 I ran less than 24 hours before the race.

tuscaloosarunner

728 posts since
Apr 7, 2006

20. May 28, 2007 9:26 AM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

Aba, Laker, USHGS, others:

Raced like sh*t today, despite two weeks recovery: 10k in 37:45. Yes course was hilly and all, but so was the St. Pat's day 5 miler where I ran 28:55. Month ago I was hitting 17:30 for 5k.

I'm kind of thinking I'm past peak; at this point, would it be best to take some downtime and start building up again?

Abadabajev

231 posts since
Oct 4, 1999

21. May 28, 2007 1:43 PM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by tuscaloosarunner:
10k in 37:45. Yes course was hilly and all, but so was the St. Pat's day 5 miler where I ran 28:55. Month ago I was hitting 17:30 for 5k. I'm kind of thinking I'm past peak; at this point, would it be best to take some downtime and start building up again?
<HR>

That is a good time for a 10k but according to your writings, you seem disappointed. The end result does not lie. It appears the training effect fatigue has not vanished.

Is there another race coming? Sometimes, one can miss a peak by a week or 2. It is not uncommon for someone to re-test himself/herself at a race 1 week later. I would suggest, only my opinion here, but if there is a race next week to go for it. If not, take several weeks down to recharge the old battery. The mileage you have accumulated in the 80's and 90's miles per week are perhaps starting to show up as fatigue.

AndyHass

1,385 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

22. May 28, 2007 1:55 PM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

That's not completely awful...hard to say. When you ran 17:30, was it flat and a lot cooler? If so, it's not a bad result. If conditions were similar, you do seem a bit fried still. If you were just not peaking right, you should feel pretty good still. If you're feeling like **** odds are there is no peak anywhere near you.

The hot days of June-July aren't a bad time to recharge and avoid forcing yourself out on every hot day. It's something to think about.

Abadabajev

231 posts since
Oct 4, 1999

23. May 28, 2007 2:28 PM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by AndyHass:
That's not completely awful...hard to say. When you ran 17:30, was it flat and a lot cooler? If so, it's not a bad result. If conditions were similar, you do seem a bit fried still. If you were just not peaking right, you should feel pretty good still. If you're feeling like **** odds are there is no peak anywhere near you.

The hot days of June-July aren't a bad time to recharge and avoid forcing yourself out on every hot day. It's something to think about.<HR>

I agree 100%. If you've fried your pistons, and got a flat tire, it will be difficult to catapult yourself out of that 'feeling ****' buzz.

tuscaloosarunner

728 posts since
Apr 7, 2006

24. May 28, 2007 8:14 PM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

Then I'm about 90% certain it's settled: time for some downtime--say about 3 weeks of nothing but some swims or EZ jogs...then maybe gear up for marathon? Is that how this is normally handled?

Live and learn. all things considered, did make marked improvement this cycle.

tuscaloosarunner

728 posts since
Apr 7, 2006

25. May 29, 2007 7:29 AM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Abadabajev:
... The mileage you have accumulated in the 80's and 90's miles per week are perhaps starting to show up as fatigue.

<HR>

Aba:

You know, the funny thing, it wasn't the mileage that did me in IMHO. It was overracing. I noticed some stuff creep in after two solid races : an earache and sore throat; grumpiness in my left foot; and just a fundemental change in attitude (such as "I'm ready for a mental break). Again, live and learn.

Whatever the case, I'll learn for next time...By the way, how much "downtime" would you (and others of course) recommend?

Abadabajev

231 posts since
Oct 4, 1999

26. May 29, 2007 9:20 AM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by tuscaloosarunner:
You know, the funny thing, it wasn't the mileage that did me in IMHO. It was overracing.
<HR>

You are correct, the build up of mileage accompanied with lots of races was a severe training load. As a result, your mood swings, sore throats, were little signs published by the body. You pushed the envelope. Nothing wrong with that. You're aggressive and you needed to find your limit

Stay really EZ until the zip in your legs come back. You'll know when. Or better yet, join another sport for a few weeks(swimming/or just walking with your family).

Take 20% time off (length of your Memorial day program). For example if you followed a 20 week training schedule, 20% off would be approx. 4 weeks off.

donnyl

590 posts since
Nov 9, 2007

27. May 29, 2007 6:45 PM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

I would shut it down, unless you really rested and ran a 5k. I think there is a chance you could run a decent 5k fully rested. The first couple times I tried higher mileage, I burned out pretty badly. Then just after I became a master I burned out on high intensity and a lot of racing. Stay with it and it will all click at some point. Don't over-analyze it too much but remember the warning signs and learn from it.

tuscaloosarunner

728 posts since
Apr 7, 2006

28. May 29, 2007 7:44 PM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by laker:
I would shut it down, unless you really rested and ran a 5k. I think there is a chance you could run a decent 5k fully rested. The first couple times I tried higher mileage, I burned out pretty badly. Then just after I became a master I burned out on high intensity and a lot of racing. Stay with it and it will all click at some point. Don't over-analyze it too much but remember the warning signs and learn from it.<HR>

Yeah, I'm shutting it down for the next few weeks. And again, I was feeling good with the mileage for the most part. IMHO it was all that high intensity work and racing all at once--that's when things headed south. Live and learn...

donnyl

590 posts since
Nov 9, 2007

29. May 30, 2007 3:03 PM

in response to: tuscaloosarunner

Re: Am I Stale?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by tuscaloosarunner:
Yeah, I'm shutting it down for the next few weeks. And again, I was feeling good with the mileage for the most part. IMHO it was all that high intensity work and racing all at once--that's when things headed south. Live and learn...<HR>

Remember though that the big ramp up in mileage can beat you down over time and show up when you race. It can take a long time and repeated attemps before it sticks. Everybody responds differently. Don't be discouraged, consistency over the long haul will pay off.

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