That's great, Maine. I'll add the link to my blogroll. I'm thinking about doing a running-centric blog on my end (I did one briefly while training for my first HM, for a local sports news site), and if I do, I'll post the link.

Should we start doing a weekly new thread, so we don't have to click through as much? Maybe on Monday evenings, or Sunday evenings?

I ran 20:41 on 6/16, so we're right at the same pace!

Can you send me those tinman workouts if you have them handy? tf(dot)lightfoot(at)insightbb(dot)com

Well I am officially a member of the sub 20:00 club! Last Saturday night I shaved ~45 seconds off my PR from 3 weeks ago. (20:40) I was confident going in that I had a shot at 20:00 or better based on my last few tempo runs, but I wasn't sure I could really hold the pace. (or rather that I wanted to endure that much pain to be honest) I weighed in about 2 pounds lighter than 3 weeks ago, at 193.

My gun time was 19:54. Watch time of 19:52.

The course had a few good climbs/hills in the first 2 miles, but the 3rd mile flattened out with a slight downhill, which was a nice change of pace for the 5K's around here.

In comparing times to others who ran the last 5K with me, some ran a bit faster, but many ran slower. So I'm confident about the course measurement. It was also mid 80's and humid, so I'm sure that affected some runners quite a bit.

All in all, I'm very happy with it, as I definitely wasn't expecting to crack 20:00 this early on in the summer. I was shooting for middle of August.

However, this is a stepping stone in my bid to BQ this fall, as a sub 20:00 projects out to a BQ time for a marathon. At least I know I have the speed, as I've really been focusing on base mileage and losing weight since last August. (~1900 miles mostly at 70% or lower of max heart rate)

The previous 2 weeks before my fall back week (race week) I ran 127 miles. One tempo run and one interval session. Moderate hills during easy runs as well. Last week was 40 total including the race.

My training log is here: http://www.coolrunning.com/cgi-bin/log/display.cgi?u=Docster;s=run4life[/URL" target="_blank">

Best of luck folks!

Way to go Docster!! Great work. I hope to join the club soon.

------------------
Mark

Vegan 100 Miler[/URL" target="_blank">

quote:<HR>Originally posted by runfastcoach:
The McMillan steady state run mentioned is nothing but a ripoff from what I used to preach. I sent lots of information to his buddy Jonas Holdeman (who I didn't know was McMillan's buddy) and it was quickly convereted into "McMillan's" ideas. What baloney!<HR>

I'm late to this discussion.

Are you saying you invented steady state runs? Or are you saying you invented how he describes them?

Wow, I was just wondering the other day what steady state runs are. Thanks for sharing, Tinman! Good stuff as always.

I coach about 25-30 runner, at one time, from around the world. Most are American, but I coach two Irishman, a Norwegian, a Belgian (not horse), and an Aussie, in addition to a Candian and several from the States.

People come and go, but right now I coach about 6 guys who are right near 31 minutes in the 10k, a few masters (40 to 61) who are at the top of their age groups.

I coached a lad from Texas since late November of 2004. He went from being a 4:51 miler to a state champ in the 5k xcountry (15:15) (Texas 4A champ) to the state champ in the 3200m (9:16) this spring. Watch for him to be an Olympic Trials qualifier in 2012. His name is Drew Bean.

In the past, I coached a couple top-flight runner. I coached Sonia O'Sullivan for 4 months, but then plans changed when she was given Australian citizenship and her man, Nic Bideau made arrrangements for her to run the 5k for the Australian team at the Commonwealth Games. Nic took over her training at that point. But, Sonia was making good progress (after a horrible 2 years prior to my coaching her).

I've coached a guy was 12th in the Olympic Trials marathon. He was just a plain hard worker. THe hardest thing was holding him back and giving him workouts that left him fresh.

Several university teams have used my training. Coaches from the following universities have contacted me and asked for advice: University of Wisconsin- La Crosse, University of IL- Chicago, University of WI - Eau Claire, Washington University, University of Illinois, University of Idaho, University of Nevada - Reno, and North Dakota State University.

Several high school coaches have used my training, too, Two, of the top, have won state titles using it: since they are my friends, I won't say their school names, but they are from Wisconsin and Maryland.

I've been a coach-advisor to several top high school runners. Just one I can say, for sure, since I know her father doesn't mind if I say something: Lauren Saylor of California who was a top 20 runner at Footlocker, before.

Ive' advised some top open coaches on training, too. Nic Bideau, Brad Hudson, a coach whose name is escaping me (I should know it since he's contacted me a few times) from
Scotland, and Knut Kvalheim, from Norway.

About my own running, it was modest. I had a very sub-par collegiate career. Much of that was due to having compartment syndrome in both lower legs. I had surgery on it just before my 20th birthday. I had terrible swelling, still do, and lots of restrictions on how far I could run. I ached every second of every day, taking huge doses of Ibuprofen just to get to sleep. In high school, I ran close to 16 minutes in the 5k (roads) and in the mid to upper 15s in x-country (3 miles, most of the time).

I played basketball in the winters, so had practically no aerobic endurance come spring...which for me takes about 6 months or more to build. I had a best of 1:59.88 in the 800 and 4:32 in the 1600m, although I probably had my fastest time on a 447 yard (yeah, it was long) home track in which I ran the 1788 yards in 4:36 in the distance medley relay, after running the 2 mile. I lost by 1 second to a guy who had run 4:19 for the 1600m.

As a freshman at Southern IL Univeristy, I red-shirted from the team. Coach Bill Cornell told me that I needed to run 4:10 to make the team, and that was too fast for me. I ran all winter on my own - about 50 miles per week, doing tempos over hilly terrain, lots of striders either on the soccer fields or on the track. I never did a single 400m repeat workout or the like, but ran 4:23 in a mile (not 1600m) in an on-campus road-race that was operated by the Student Union. I was second to a guy that ran 4:20 (who was on the university team).

The next few years I ran for a D3 school, was injured almost the whole time. I had surgery as a sophomore and was never the same. I couldn't run more than 40 miles per week and survive the pain in my legs. It greatly hurt my chances of advancing my fitness. I ran a lot of hard interval workouts, whatever was written, faithfully, and it ruined my aerobic endurance. I'd run my fastest times in the first week or two of the season and then get worse. I'd come off a 35-40 mile per week base, run well, then get worse and worse.

In my late 20s, I had run steadily for about 2 years, missing less than 5 days total. I found a routine that worked well for me: Day 1 (Easy)(7:30 per mile), Day 2 (Medium) (7:00 to 6:45 per mile), Day 3 (Semi-Strong, Tempo Running) (6:15 to 6:00 per mile over rolling hills). I was working a lot of hours, on my feet a lot, so I was tired all the time. That fact alone probably cost me 15-30 seconds per mile in my pace. But, I ran 15:13 on the track for 5,000m and 4:01.98 off that training. No speedwork, other than pickup basketball games!

Just after that, I got terrible kidney stones from all the Ibuprofen and Aleve I was consuming just to run daily. It hit me hard and my urologist told me to stop taking the meds. I had to! I stopped competitive running at that point, althought I jumped in some cycling and duathlon races on limited running training.

Must get some dinner!

Take care,

Tinman
runfastcoach@gmail.com