I agree with OldXCguy. The best exercise for running is running. Also, I have a strong bias towards running everday or close to it. It's better to just jog slowly on days you would otherwise take off. Of course you don't run when to do so would further aggravate an injury. I know that it might not seem logical that there's much benefit in just jogging, but my experience is that it's one of the little things that can make a big difference. And if weight is an issue at all, that goes double.

Nice going on the big improvement in your 5k time. If you're like most runners, adding more miles is probably the most important thing you can do to improve.

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Originally posted by Jim24315:

I agree with OldXCguy. The best exercise for running is running. Also, I have a strong bias towards running everday or close to it. It's better to just jog slowly on days you would otherwise take off. Of course you don't run when to do so would further aggravate an injury. I know that it might not seem logical that there's much benefit in just jogging, but my experience is that it's one of the little things that can make a big difference. And if weight is an issue at all, that goes double.

Nice going on the big improvement in your 5k time. If you're like most runners, adding more miles is probably the most important thing you can do to improve.

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I agree there is no substitute for quality miles. However, I do think cross training can improve your speed significantly. Sure, you can do track workouts until you are blue in the face and accomplish the same thing but track time can be hard to come by sometimes.

I was able to take almost 1 minute off my 5k PR this year on less than 10 MPW. The only thing I did differently was I increased my strength by running on a treadmill(5k’s at max treadmill speed uphill),Weight training, and doing the exercise bike. Now I was doing all of those activities at an extremely aggressive level but it really worked.

It was too hot(107 degrees, 100 % humidity, heat index 115) to run outside around here in the summer so the cross training really worked out nicely.

I say to each his own but I wouldn’t discount a good hard cross training exercise either.




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Originally posted by JasonsDrivingForce:

I agree there is no substitute for quality miles. However, I do think cross training can improve your speed significantly. Sure, you can do track workouts until you are blue in the face and accomplish the same thing but track time can be hard to come by sometimes.

I was able to take almost 1 minute off my 5k PR this year on less than 10 MPW. The only thing I did differently was I increased my strength by running on a treadmill(5k’s at max treadmill speed uphill),Weight training, and doing the exercise bike. Now I was doing all of those activities at an extremely aggressive level but it really worked.

It was too hot(107 degrees, 100 % humidity, heat index 115) to run outside around here in the summer so the cross training really worked out nicely.

I say to each his own but I wouldn’t discount a good hard cross training exercise either.

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Running on a treadmill, is...well...running on a treadmill. It IS running. So far as the cycling it can keep you fit, but imo does very little to improve running. I've tried it many times, btw, and still would use it to get through an injury and try to maintain some fitness. However, it would be a maintenence tool at best. Not to get into one upsmanship, but I could run in the high 17's, low 18's while in my 40's off very little running and riding my bike. When I only ran while upping the miles considerably I ran in the 16's. Not only did 5k times improve, but longer race times were even better. It's perfectly understandable that many people do not have the time to run many miles but there isn't much doubt about the benefits of running more, at least from a comptetive standpoint.

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Originally posted by OldXCguy:

I know very well what you mean about having goals that now seem challenging, even though they were readily obtainable in the past. For instance, JDF, I'm amazed that you can go
sub-40 for 10K while pushing a stroller.

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I haven’t accomplished that yet but I plan on changing that this weekend as long as the winds don’t pick up.

I only managed to run 3.1 miles last week! I was sick and I just couldn’t get out to run. I guess I will find out how my lack of miles will affect me in the distance stuff this weekend. I can gut out a 5k. No way I am getting through a 10K on “will” alone.




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Originally posted by Jim24315:

Ok Travis, I hear what you are saying, but even then I believe that the same thing can be accomplished with hill sprints and other hill workouts. The consensus seems to be that it's a better way for runners to go than weight training or some other from of cross training.

Regarding "“No substitute for quality miles" I would add that that plenty of easy miles is just as important. Not all mileage or even most of it needs to be "quality" to produce good results.

Hey, I'm not trying to pick on you, just expressing some opinions and throwing it out here for discussion.

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Jim,

No offense taken. I respect your opinion and advice very much. I know that easy miles are necessary too I just don’t think they do as much to help your speed which is what I was concentrating on before. They definitely help your endurance.

I was only making my statements for people who just don’t have the time or right conditions to get out and put the miles in. For instance: The summer here in NC hit 107 degrees several times with a heat index of 115. It was impossible to run outside anytime of the day. It was above 80 at 6:00 AM and at 100 even as late as 8:00 PM.

I was training for a 1 mile race and a few 5Ks during July and August and part of September. Since I couldn’t get outside to run I joined a gym. Now I have two young children so my gym time was also limited. I would do 3.1 miles on the treadmill flat out as fast as it would go uphill the whole way. Then I would hammer about 10 minutes on the bike and do a hard core aerobic class in the afternoon. Technically I was only running about 10 miles per week but my strength and endurance were increasing rapidly.

If I had tried to run outside I probably would have only managed about 15-20 miles per week because the heat was just so oppressive. In the end I was able to post a decent time in the mile and I was able to knock almost 50 seconds off of my 5k pr time. There is no way I would have been able to accomplish that if I had swapped the cross-training for 15-20 mpw.

Now that the weather is cooler(A balmy 31 degrees this morning) I have eliminated all but the aerobic class from my cross training. I have totally switched over to doing longer runs outside. And yes my longer distance running is improving more now than in September. However, I am not quite sure that I could achieve the same speed that I did back then.

The big difference is that anything 6 miles and over I know I could do much better now.


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Originally posted by Scott3294:

Jason I can relate.
Running this summer here in Savannah was brutal. I would wait as late as 8:30pm and I would still be running in a heat index of 110. We topped out several days in August with a heat index of 130+.
I managed to get a few miles in on the worst days...but as soon as yo you start your heart rate exploded to 85%.
Running in this cooler stuff is a breeze.

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Yea this morning when I was running and it was right around freezing I thought I was going to run out of my shoes. I had forgotten how much easier it was to run when the temps get to about 30-40. I have a rule that I don’t run when the actual temp is above 95. That ruled out all of July and almost all of August around here. You guys had it much worse though!

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I guess the 2007 chance of breaking 20 are almost passed.
Unless some of you are running Turkey Trots or Christmas runs.

I am aiming for 26 miles this week then my 1st cut back week next week (Thanksgiving or between 18-20 miles).

Since I have been running mileage in the 20s the past month I cannot slow down. I am often starting out looking for 8:00 mile paced 5ks but usually come in under 7:30 per mile pace.

So my Fall base so far has been weeks of 20,22 and 24 miles with 26 the goal for this week (at 11 miles so far). I have averaged 30.4 mpw for the year (1379 miles).

My lofty goal for 2008 is to run all 5k races in under 20. I would also like to take a crack at a 10k race or two.

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Originally posted by MaineRunner2001:

I strained my lower back. I am on the disabled list for one week, possibly more.

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Boy, I did that last year and it took me out. I was coming off of some weird thigh problem and I couldn't run for like 2 months. I finally started back up just running easy one or two mile runs. I ran four nice and easy and I was pretty damn happy. Didn't want to go inside so I figured I'd cool down by clipping the hedges. clip clip clip clip clip twist clip clip thud. Down goes angrek, face first. Went down two more times before I could get to the garage. It was the funniest damn thing. Must have just looked like someone was throwing a rag doll at the ground. I'd had previous upper and lower disc and vertebrae injuries so it wasn't anything new, just wasn't expecting doing something silly like clipping the hedges...



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