Fall Marathon Trainers Thread

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50 Replies Last post: Sep 6, 2007 8:10 PM by runninlaw Go to original post 1 2 3 4 Previous Next

bhearn

430 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

30. Sep 4, 2007 11:58 AM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

Not to mention

8. You have a tune-up half on Sunday, that should nail down an appropriate goal time much better!

Good luck. I know if my tune-ups indicated I had a legitimate shot at sub-3, I'd go for it.

DanMoriarity

823 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

31. Sep 4, 2007 11:59 AM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

quote:<HR>Originally posted by runninlaw:
Su - 16.74 including a half mary - 1:36:50. I was hoping for 1:35, but I couldn't hold the pace when I hit the hills in the second half. It was fun though because I reeled in 2 women during the last 2 miles so I came in 5th overall and 1st in my AG (30-34). TSG - I gave you a nod when I passed the 5 mile mark as they read out my time of 36:xx - I thought sub-32 - rock on TSG. It was a great race and although I did not perform as well as the fast me in my mind would , it was a 9 minute PR from last year and McMillian still puts me in at 3:24. I have come along way this year!!

Total: 62:87<HR>

Congrats, that's a great race! You really have come a long way this year.

rootsrunner

238 posts since
Jun 28, 2006

32. Sep 4, 2007 12:25 PM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

thereshegoes- Thanks for the remarks. This is the dialogue I was searching for. All very relevant and informative points and that illustrates your personality -- tidbits I have not gleaned from the weekly rundown.

Working with a coach, being relatively young in the sport, and your ambition are all indicative that you'll hit your goals.

I agree with bhearn that the HM will provide a better indicator than the 5M result. I don't imagine the outcome to be any different - your training is solid and I anticipate you will do great. Perhaps 1:25-ish?

Really, I am not trying to poo-poo anyones goals. I appreciate your perspective. This thread here is great support.

thereshegoes

332 posts since
Jun 15, 2006

33. Sep 4, 2007 1:02 PM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

quote:<HR>Originally posted by rootsrunner:
thereshegoes- Thanks for the remarks. This is the dialogue I was searching for. All very relevant and informative points and that illustrates your personality -- tidbits I have not gleaned from the weekly rundown.

Working with a coach, being relatively young in the sport, and your ambition are all indicative that you'll hit your goals.

I agree with bhearn that the HM will provide a better indicator than the 5M result. I don't imagine the outcome to be any different - your training is solid and I anticipate you will do great. Perhaps 1:25-ish?

Really, I am not trying to poo-poo anyones goals. I appreciate your perspective. This thread here is great support.<HR>

Great! Now that my plans for the HM are out in the open there's no pressure to do well or anything

Anyway,I am totally happy to engage in the dialogue!! I know where you were going with your questions and they didn't feel they were poo-pooish (he!) at all. I appreciate the challenge and while it's good to have ambitious goals it's also good to have to think about whether or not they're realistic!

I agree with you and bhearn on the HM--all the 5 mile race shows is that I have improved since May, but I wouldn't bank a marathon goal time just on that.

With the 1:03 10 miler--and that was a significant neg split if I recall?--have you considered revising your goal? .

runninlaw

989 posts since
Mar 13, 2006

34. Dec 20, 2007 10:25 PM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

Thanks for all of the congrats on my half! I really appreciate it and I am really thrilled by it!

And if I may, I would like to interject into the conversation re adjusting goals....I think it is important to continually think about your goal time THROUGHOUT training rather than just to pick a number in the beginning of the season and stick with it. Early in the season, I picked 3:20-3:25 pretty arbitrarily. I say it was abritrary b/c my PR is 3:37 and although I trained for a 3:25 in Spring, the Noreaster in Boston also changed my plans.

As this season progressed, I really wasn't sure where I was. If I went for 3:20 would I bomb? If I went for 3:25 would I have way too much left? Now that my training is coming full circle and I have a tune-up race that indicates 3:25 is probably more correct, I am going to go down that road. I started (momentarily) feeling a little bummed about adjusting my goal upward, but then I had to hit myself over the head with the reality hammer and say - this is not a negative thing! The numbers preseason were just that - numbers. You need numbers+training+tune-up races to get to the right spot. TSG has been consistently been getting stronger all season during training runs and is seeing that 3:10 is probably too slow. I think several of us could probably tweak our goals just a bit if we really thought about it. The only case where people don't budge much is when looking to BQ or when they have come close to their best potential and don't have a whole lot of wiggle room. However, I notice those guys change it by a minute or 2 from time to time too.

With that said, hopefully the weather and all the other crazy factors involved decide to cooperate with all of our lofty goals.

GOOD LUCK IN THE HALF NEXT WEEKEND TSG!!

AND SPEAKING OF SUB-3, loopy is racing his marathon next weekend - Run strong man!!! I hope the weather gods are with you - it is supposed to be beautiful here.

http://This message has been edited by runninlaw (edited Sep-04-2007).

loopy069

238 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

35. Sep 4, 2007 2:55 PM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

quote:<HR>Originally posted by runninlaw:
AND SPEAKING OF SUB-3, loopy is racing his marathon next weekend - Run strong man!!! I hope the weather gods are with you - it is supposed to be beautiful here.<HR>

Yep! Getting very nervous. Weather is looking promising -- though trying not to think to much about it and jynx myself...

Any tips from folks on how to approach Sunday's race given some new intelligence:

This will be a very small race (150 to 200 runners). I just found out of one other sub-3ish guy who will be running.

My very unscientific extrapolation would put him in the mid 2:50s on his best day whereas I am probably in high 2:50s territory if everything goes right.

Should I try to stick with him race day or run my own pace (most likely alone)??? My 3:06 PR was at a similarly small race, where I ran most of the race alone, so I know I can do it on my own, but I may be able to push much harder with the direct competition.

What does everyone think?

MilebyMile

308 posts since
Aug 15, 2007

36. Sep 4, 2007 3:29 PM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

quote:<HR>Originally posted by thereshegoes:
Great job runninlaw!! That's a HUGE PR!!! Woo! I really think 3:20-3:25 is definitely the right goal for you. If I were you I would plan to run an average of 7:50 pace (3:25) to mile 22 and if you feel good, let it rip those last 4 miles.

Heh! I'm glad I kept you company in the race!! I can assure you that I won't be seeing a sub 32 5 mile split in a 1/2 marathon any time soon

I have adjusted my goals. I think it's in the realm of possible for me to break 3:00. It's so not a sure thing, but I am feeling like under the right circumstances I can do it. I am training with that goal in mind for sure, but at the same time I'll be happy whatever I do if I run my best on that day. I have a half on Sunday, so I'll wait to see how that goes before we officially change my goal here, though.

Congrats again on an awesome half! You should feel very proud!<HR>

That is a very gutsy call. I think we are or were similar in our speeds. I ran 3:15 at Boston, ran a tough 10 mile relay the next week and a half 2 weeks later in 1:29:19. I am shooting for a 3:08. Last year march I ran a 30:20 5 miler by far my best race. I think about a 3:00 but know it is another marathon training session away and some weight loss.
3:00 seems like a logical jump from 3:10 but I think it is deceiving just like a 20 5k to a 19 5k is deceiving. I have seen some good runners struggle with the 3:00 hour mark and hit 3:01 3:02 more than once.
You are young I give you that but it is a risky move in my opinion. Not sure how I would react to a blowup in a marathon but I dont think it would be good. Tuneup races will be a good indicator for you for sure. I have to add 5 minutes to my Mcmillian calculated times. If everything fell just right for you, you could do it. Good Luck.

runninlaw

989 posts since
Mar 13, 2006

37. Dec 20, 2007 10:25 PM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

quote:<HR>Originally posted by loopy:

Should I try to stick with him race day or run my own pace (most likely alone)??? My 3:06 PR was at a similarly small race, where I ran most of the race alone, so I know I can do it on my own, but I may be able to push much harder with the direct competition.

What does everyone think?<HR>

I would DEFINITELY run my own race rather than pace off someone faster. Those extra 5-9 minutes could be the death of you (or what feels like it) come mile 18-20. GOOD LUCK! You might WIN the thing - how awesome would that be?!?!

http://This message has been edited by runninlaw (edited Sep-04-2007).

runninlaw

989 posts since
Mar 13, 2006

38. Sep 4, 2007 5:45 PM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Hannibal Granite:
Just thought I would let everyone know I have decided not to do the marathon in December, I'm postponing until January (Miami 27 Jan 2008). My training over the past month or so has been horrible due to a number of factors and while I could still get in some halfway decent training and finish I don't want to do that. I've already done 4 marathons so I know I can finish, the next one I do I want to go in knowing that I have done the training that could at least potentialy get me a PR.
I don't know if January still really falls into "Fall" marathon training, but I'll post on here anyway, and when the "Spring Marathon Trainers" thread pops up I'll just be at the front of the train.

<HR>

Hey HG - I finally updated the list. Sorry to hear your training has been poor. Sounds like you are making a good decision. Jan is definitely a spring race, but I see no problem in listing the goal here - I'm sure we will continue on in Spring.

wheaton097

29 posts since
Jan 19, 2007

39. Sep 4, 2007 7:27 PM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

I had a major setback this week. Everything seemed fine until thursday after a really bad interval session.

M - 8M
T - 7x800 @ 2:55
W - 15M @ 7:24 (felt so good after mile 5, I probably went out @ 8-8:30 for 5 then gradually increased the pace to sub 7 towards the end)
T - planned 8x800 but mentally blew it at 5 800's. Did 2 200 sprints at the end. Felt fine physically, but mentally I just died. I had no pain in my foot like I would later that day.

I noticed it at 9am on my way to class after my workout. It started as a pain in my big toe that made my limp. Then in moved to the top of my midfoot but continued to hurt to walk. I am no stranger to pain and so I shrugged it off.

F- 8M (still had pain, but not too bad)

On my way to class friday morning I could hardly walk. I knew something was wrong at this point.

S- iced foot, stationary bike 1hr
S- stationary bike 1hr
M- stationary bike 1hr (foot feeling significantly better)
T- 8M (foot felt almost normal) but afterwards I knew I shouldnt have. It went back to how it felt on saturday (not the worst, but enough to seriously worry me)

So I iced it today and it feels better again. Should I go to a doctor and get it x-rayed for stress fractures or should I keep icing it and cross train through the recovery? I fear that this may take me out for this season (as far as running is concerned). If an 8 miler hurts it this much, I'm scared to do anything resembling a respectable long run. I think the problem arose from wearing my shoes too tight so on the 8m run this morning I wore them extremely loose.

runninlaw

989 posts since
Mar 13, 2006

40. Dec 20, 2007 10:25 PM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

oh no wheaton! I hate to hear that. I doubt it is a stress fracture - it looks like you just pushed too hard 3 days in a row and maybe had some footwear issues. Back off on intensity, wear your shoes properly and see if things clear up in the next couple of weeks. A stress fracture isn't just going to pop up over night. Fortunately I have never had one, but I have heard they are incredibly hard to diagnose anyway. I have had strange aches and pains that freak me out but so far all have gone away after a couple weeks if I rest, change shoes, whatever. Take some time off, ice it, come back slow and reevaluate.

Good luck - I hate to hear this.

EDITED TO ADD: WHY THE HECK ARE YOU RUNNING INTERVALS 2x PER WEEK?!?!?!

http://This message has been edited by runninlaw (edited Sep-04-2007).

wheaton097

29 posts since
Jan 19, 2007

41. Sep 4, 2007 9:24 PM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

I run intervals twice per week because I hate tempo runs. And I don't see it as that hard on my body because college runners run intervals 3-4 times per week (and I am only 22).

I usually do one day of short intervals for VO2max 200-800 and one of long intervals for LT 800-2M. Last week I only had access to a 200m indoor track and could not stand the thought of more than 4 or 5 laps per interval.

If it doesn't get better in 2 weeks then I will scrap this season. In the mean time I will ice it every day and cross train as much as possible. Is there any point in trying to simulate a long run on a bike by biking 2-3 hours or is that just too different?

bhearn

430 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

42. Sep 4, 2007 9:42 PM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

Rather indirect and anecdotal, but my wife's orthotic doctor has mentioned that many people wear their running shoes too tight, causing too much pressure on the top of the foot when the shoe flexes. There's a tendon (more than one?) across the top of the foot that can get inflamed.

I've had this happen myself, after a marathon. Took a few weeks to go away. I wore my shoe looser than usual, and (of course) reduced intensity.

rootsrunner

238 posts since
Jun 28, 2006

43. Sep 5, 2007 10:48 AM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

quote:<HR>Originally posted by thereshegoes:
With the 1:03 10 miler--and that was a significant neg split if I recall?--have you considered revising your goal? .

<HR>

To be fair, lets call in 1:04 (it was 1:03:56)

Yeah, it was a good result and a nice overcast and drizzly day to run. I held 6:30s for the first 6 miles and found a closing kick for the last 3 miles (6:11, 6:10, 5:58). Never expected the result, but it does suggest now I could possbly run a faster marathon.

I'm not sure what to expect in the marathon. My best two marathons were run at the Flying Pig--a course that forces a conservative start in the first 9 miles.

My next race is Steamtown and the downhill start. I imagine that I will not be as comfortable in the early going, a condition that the Flying Pig provided to me in order to help relax. I could be in a world of hurt at Steamtown.

As far as goals, who knows. If run well, I know that the Steamtown course could knock an extra minute or two off my time. Either way though, its still 26.2 miles and its going to be exciting!

rootsrunner

238 posts since
Jun 28, 2006

44. Sep 5, 2007 10:50 AM

in response to: runninlaw

Re: Fall Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of August 27

quote:<HR>Originally posted by spkoest:
I have to add 5 minutes to my Mcmillian calculated times. If everything fell just right for you, you could do it. Good Luck.<HR>

I've found this to be true for me too. I've run the marathon about 5-7 minutes slower than what my tune-up races suggest on the Macmillian or the VDOT tables.

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