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Click to view runninlaw's profile Legend 989 posts since
Mar 13, 2006
15. Oct 7, 2007 9:51 PM in response to: Gazelle2008
quote:<HR>Originally posted by 92heelgrad:
My 3:30 was a PR by eight minutes for me, but it would have been much faster on a normal 55 degree day. It's heartening to know I can gut it out like that, but also profoundly disappointing not to BQ when you know you have the right stuff for it.

<HR>


I can't even begin to tell you how much I hear you on this one - especially since it happened to me twice this year! The good news is that you've got it in you. That really is more than most people can say. We can't control the weather......

With that said, this winter is the last block of time that I will have time to run like a maniac, so for my spring race, I am going to pick a popular race weekend, train my @ss off, then 3 days out, decide the destination based on weather on go!! He he!!
Click to view runninlaw's profile Legend 989 posts since
Mar 13, 2006
16. Dec 20, 2007 10:32 PM in response to: Gazelle2008
quote:<HR>Originally posted by joplus:
[b]Training this week was negligible - 39+ miles with a tiny workout Tuesday (3mi 7:07, 6:58, 6:58).

As for the race, it was my first DNF in a marathon. I averaged about 7:15 pace for 12.5 miles, never felt good, stopped to get a full cup of water down and realized how woozy and awful I felt. I decided to save myself a PW and a long recovery. I'm thinking about trying again in Jacksonville on Dec 16.

We're still in St Paul, and we just had dinner at a sidewalk cafe - it's still that warm out, even at night. runninlaw (and everyone else who ran in the midwest today), good job for holding on to the end in that weather.[/B]<HR>


Wow joplus - I hate to hear about a DNF. I told my husband today I was really hoping at least you could pull through since you have all that hot weather training under your belt. But hot, humid race day conditions are as they are! DNFing was very smart if you plan to redeem yourself. I was temped to do the same to run a race in northern WI next weekend (of course scheduled to have PERFECT weather). GRRRRR. All that aside, I have heard jacksonville is a good race. GOOD LUCK to you. I know you have it in you!

step step, sorry to hear you were in the same boat as the rest of us. Nice showing overall.

My husband and I stopped at a local fire station after the race to call a cab and they said they had 10 people down in the 10 miler alone. Crazy. I saw some crazy stuff out there today.

http://This message has been edited by runninlaw (edited Oct-07-2007).
Click to view Doctor Wu076's profile Legend 412 posts since
Sep 25, 2000
17. Dec 20, 2007 10:32 PM in response to: Gazelle2008
46 +/- miles for the week with the Mohawk Hudson River Marathon today in 3:29:07. My 2nd fastest marathon (out of 21) and only my 2nd time ever under 3:30. A little bit of Canadian air slipped into the NY capital district keeping things nice and cool, in the 50's to low 60's with clouds, then sun. I ran a crazy first half: 3:23 pace at 20k, 3:24 pace at halfway, but slowed after 20 miles. Couldn't match my 3:27:10 PR from last year here but I'm happy considering that I'm about 250 miles behind last year YTD.

Next up: Philadelphia marathon. One week of recovery followed by three weeks of mid distance (lots of 10 - 15 milers) and speed, followed by a two week taper. Hoping to get under 3:25 there, weather permitting.



To all of you who ran in the heat today: I can commisserate after doing Boston '04. I was very lucky to have picked the right race today.

Edited to add: ADD PHILADELPHIA MARATHON, NOV 18. Goal = 3:24:59.




http://This message has been edited by Doctor Wu (edited Oct-08-2007).
Click to view Jim24315's profile Legend 1,978 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
18. Oct 7, 2007 11:08 PM in response to: Gazelle2008
Joplus,

I support you 100% in your decision. Nobody can question your heart when we see the countless miles you put in during training. The great Paula Radcliffe dropped out of one only to come back to score one of the gutsiest front running wins I've ever seen on her way to winning the the World Cup Marathon.

You know you can finish, but that's not why you race. I would have done the same thing and let people think want they want.

"I decided to save myself a PW and a long recovery"

Yes!

Congrats on your recent 19:20, btw. Well done.
Click to view zoomharp's profile Pro 130 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
19. Oct 7, 2007 11:09 PM in response to: Gazelle2008
quote:<HR>Originally posted by 92heelgrad:
It's heartening to know I can gut it out like that, but also profoundly disappointing not to BQ when you know you have the right stuff for it.

<HR>

I am so impressed! Right stuff? You are amazing!

Congrats and consolations to all you mid-west marathoners today. What a total inspiration you are.

I did not have the race I wanted, but I have much to be happy about. With a weak final 10K, stomach trouble and two bathroom stops (unheard of for me!) I still managed a 10 minute PR at 4:17. This is the second time this year I really had reason to think I could pull off a faster time but it was not to be. I have to remind myself that my average marathon time a year ago was more like 4:45.

I look forward to chatting with all of you again when I crank up training for the renewal of my sub 4 goal next spring. I'm thinking of implementing some of the "Fixing the Fade" advice in a recent Running Times issue, especially the "reducing delta." My pace really fell off those last miles, though I still passed more people than ever, and many more than the number passing me. Though my last 6 miles were pretty painful, I finished strong and it felt so good to continually pass people those last 6 miles.

I thought about you Chicago folks all day yesterday and all morning today. If it's any consolation, there's a stranger out here in Internet Land who thinks very highly of your courage and toughness. I was whining about my few minutes of sunshine that happened to coincide with ascending the St. John's bridge today (8-12% grade) -- it seemed to go up to 60 degrees! at just the wrong time. Go ahead, call me a wimp. You have earned it.
Click to view rootsrunner's profile Legend 238 posts since
Jun 28, 2006
20. Oct 8, 2007 1:09 AM in response to: Gazelle2008
30 miles running and 35 cycling for the week leading into today's Steamtown race.

If it were only about training and running, we'd all have a lot more great race results. Unfortunately, it isn't. Lots of things we cannot control. Today, aside from the less-than-ideal weather, I dealt with fever and intestinal issues mid-race.

I'll write up a full report, but the story of the day is I started the race with a slight fever and scratchy throat, which I first noticed Friday and got gradualy worse Saturday and Sunday. Race time temp 62F and 90% humidity. 75F at the finish.

It felt like soup from the opening gun. I told myself that I'd run 5 and see how I feel. With the downhill start, not bad! Mile 5 in 35:00 flat and mile 10 in 1:09:55. At that point I started to think I could do something. I ran comfortably with another runner between miles 8-17, holding the 7min pace. By 18, I was going back-and-forth between shivering and heat flashes. My body was wacked. The other runner went on to finish 3:05.

Luckily, I had this heat experience before (Athens '05) I did today what I did then. I shut it down at 18 and jogged/walked it in. That year, I found another race 3 weeks later.

1:31:20
1:45:05
3:16:25

Not upset, but its still a tough pill to swallow after putting in the miles. I am encouraged that I think my goal, or even sub-3 is in me someday soon.

The cold is now worse, but the legs not entirely thrashed.

More to follow. Sorry to hear about Chicago and TC. Scranton was not that bad, comparitively.
Click to view Johnny J013's profile Legend 358 posts since
May 21, 2003
21. Oct 8, 2007 1:46 AM in response to: Gazelle2008
I feel so bad for all the people at Chicago and TCM and other hot ones this weekend, in addition to the sick ones as well.

Heelgrad92-- that is a tremendous result in the heat. I did Boston 2004 which was very similar to today's conditions in Chicago, but about 2-3 degrees cooler. It was ugly and the worst marathon for me personally ever. I persisted in my time goal and literally was done by mile 15 because of the heat. It still stands as a glaring PW for me, 20 minutes slower than any other marathon, and now almost an hour slower than my PR. So to post a PR in that heat really says something.

Joplus-- I have to say that was very smart. Is there not a race even sooner (say next weekend or two?) that you could turn around and do since you're all trained to race now? Either way, good luck if you do the one in December.

To all the rest who struggled through heat and illness-- great job!! That is the frustration of the marathon in a nutshell-- you spend a half year training hard towards a goal and then a lot of random, uncontrollable things happen at the moment of truth which ruin everything.

bhearn-- great race! you trained smart enough to stay healthy and sounds like it paid off.

I was lucky enough to get perfect weather, and if anything, a little cold. It was 35 degrees at the start, warming to 51 degrees by the time I finished. I ran a PR by 3 minutes, and was very happy with that considering my training hadn't been quite as good as last years was. I felt great the first half, had a few issues I worked through in the second (tight right hamstring starting mile 18 that fortunately didn't develop into anything worse), stomach/sideache/abd. muscle cramps mile 23.5-24.5 that passed, glycogen depletion mile 24, felt like mailing it in and coasting in, but someone I had passed around 23 struggling and encouraged them, telling them not to let me drop them, and to come on, returned the favor, so I pushed a bit and I was able to get past the worst of the feeling of awfulness and start counting strides, and got back in to a rhythm and maintained pace, then calves cramping last mile. They really locked up in the final 400 as I tried to push a bit. Was just able to hold off someone that was gaining on me in the last 100 yds. but the calves were absolute knots and I was flailing stiff-legged. Anyway--
Splits 1:24 first half, 1:20 second. 2:44. Also played a nice round of 18 that afternoon-- I took a cart! The legs took a major beating though as I can't walk today and am hobbled by calves, quads, even tendons on the top of my feet which I've never had before. I won't be running for 4-5 days even if I wanted to. Good times!
Click to view Deco's profile Pro 104 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
22. Oct 8, 2007 5:31 AM in response to: Gazelle2008
Congrats all round for those racing over the weekend.
92heelgrad, Johnny J, congrats on PR's. Johnny, superb neg. split there. Happy recovery.
Click to view Fast Like the Wind's profile Amateur 33 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
23. Oct 8, 2007 7:06 AM in response to: Gazelle2008
Hey all ... haven't posted here for a while but work, family, and a time consuming hobby (running) have kept away for a while.

In any event I was at Twin Cities yesterday and planned to run it as my last long run for Marine Corps in 3 weeks. Needless to say it was way hot (was is July 7th or October 7th?). I was also coming back from a calf strain which had me running 30miles 2 weeks ago and 4miles in the week leading up the run. So, I took the shortcut to the capitol on a bus after a 2:01 half. Good time for a training run (for me) in the heat ... and the best news is the calf is feeling pretty good (not 100%, but about as good as it's going to feel until after MCM).

Good job to those that finished TCM and Chicago yesterday. Ugly, ugly conditions.
Click to view loopy069's profile Legend 238 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
24. Oct 8, 2007 7:58 AM in response to: Gazelle2008
Hi all. Wow some great racing in some tough conditions!

Heelgrad, amazing PR in that crazy heat - that is nuts! Bhearn and Johnny J great PRs too -- fantastic splits JJ!

Zoomharp, sorry you did not have the race you wanted, but great that you still PRed despite the stomach and other issues.

Dr. Wu great job with the sub 3:30 -- best of luck in Philly!

Joplus, sorry about the DNF, but sounds like you made the right decision -- best of luck with Jackonsville if you decide to give it a go. FastLiketheWind, sounds like you made the right decision too -- best of luck at MCM!

Runninlaw and stepstep, great job persevering despite the horrible conditions.

Rootsrunner, also great job despite the race day illness.

Phew, did I get everybody??? Great jobs all!
Click to view loopy069's profile Legend 238 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
25. Oct 8, 2007 8:05 AM in response to: Gazelle2008
OK, now a quick note on my week:

M: 45 mins trails
T: 45 mins trails
W: 45 mins trails
T: OFF
F: OFF
S: OFF
S: 50K race: 4:41:5X, 8th overall

Got a cold from my kids Wednesday night so tried to get as much rest as possible before the race. Was still a little gunked up Sunday, but getting better.

My time was a 6+min PR over last year's time - not bad considering the heat and my cold. I still ran like an idiot though - just not as much as an idiot as last year.

This years 15.5 mi splits: 2:07 / 2:35 as opposed to last years 2:05/2:43. I guess I still have not figured out this whole trail racing thing -- but it sure is fun!
Click to view GoDawgGo's profile Pro 123 posts since
Jul 1, 2005
26. Dec 20, 2007 10:32 PM in response to: Gazelle2008
I feel so bad for so many of you. To train your *** off for so long only to have to encounter the weather conditions that were presented yesterday. The marathon is tough enough, let alone trying to do it under sub-optimal conditions. It was fairly warm in Sacramento yesterday, but not nearly as bad ad the Midwest. Here is a quick breakdown of my week.

M: REST
T: 0:45 min (4 miles EZ + 2 mile @ MP)
W: 1:05 AM // 0:35 PM (12+ miles)
T: REST
F: 0:40
S: 0:35
S: Sacramento Cowtown Marathon (3:01:37) 9th Overall; 1st AG. Happy with my effort especially under the conditions. Full report after I had my coffee.

**********

Race report. Wow, where do I start? Felt pretty good in the last few days going into this. This was one of the most difficult training cycles for me due to the battle with the constant minor injuries. A few months ago I said to myself I would be happy to get to the starting line in one piece. The race was especially important for me because I would be running it with my 72-year-old Dad. This was his first marathon. The numerous ART (Active Release) sessions, the daily stretching/yoga routines, helped get me here.

Set the alarm for 4AM. Had good sleep all week. Had my bagel, ½ banana and coffee. Took and warm shower to wake up and got all my things together. Weather was looking at about 50 degrees at the start with a high of 75. Felt relatively warm outside so I decided to dress light. Headed out the door at 5:30, picked up my Dad and got to the race site @ 6:30. Lots of runners were already there. They expected about 4,000 people racing, but most of them would be doing the half marathon. Only 283 people ended up completing the full marathon.

The race got started right on time (7:30). I lined up toward the front and crossed the chip mat in a matter of seconds. The weather was perfect at the start, but I knew that it would start to warm once the sun came up. In the first 5 to 6 miles it was hard to see whom you were racing against since most people were running the half marathon. The marathon course at Cowtown is the half marathon route run twice. I knew this would be a mental challenge and I even practiced running a lot of double loops in practice. I was running easily in the beginning and hitting my paces. I was feeling good aerobically, but I was having some digestive/intestinal issues. First 6 mile splits were:

Mile 1 6:54
Mile 2 6:52
Mile 3 6:42
Mile 4 6:43
Mile 5 6:41
Mile 6 6:41

I was enjoying the course, but I must admit there were a lot of turns. I was happy that I was keeping a consistent pace. The course is relatively flat, but it was hard to just ?zone? out and run because of the turns. Miles 7 to 13, I was still feeling pretty good, but I could feel it warming up. I tried to take fluids (Cytomax) at every stop. I packed some gels, but my stomach was acting weird and I did not think I could digest them. Splits:

Mile 7 6:46
Mile 8 6:52
Mile 9 6:42
Mile 10 6:46
Mile 11 6:51
Mile 12/13 13:35 (1:28:12 @ Mile 13)

I hit the half in just over 1:29. Right on pace, but I knew even then that sub-3:00 was going to be a challenge. I started to feel the sun?s affects. I was also a weird sensation crossing the ?finish line? only to know that you had to do the whole thing over again. Especially when most of the people near you were done racing. Even with all the half marathoners registered, I still ran most of the race alone. I did managed to lock up with a guy at Mile 14. He asked if I was hoping to break 3? I said that would be great, but the way I am feeling now, just finishing strong would be a plus. We ran together for about a mile or so before he dropped off pace. Miles 14 to 18 were really lonely. I was by myself for the most part. It felt like average training run. There was one short out and back section where I saw a few runners, but that was about it. Splits:

Mile 14 6:49
Mile 15 6:45
Mile 16 6:46
Mile 17 6:54
Mile 18 6:52

When I crossed Mile 18, I figured I had about an hour to go. I was getting a little hot and a bit dehydrated. The Cytomax was really diluted. And, at a few checkpoints, they only had these small 4 oz. cups so I new I probably wasn?t getting enough fluid in. I was taking electrolyte tablets which definitely helped. The run started getting real tough mentally. One obstacle the marathoners were faced with was passing all the slower ½ marathon walkers and joggers. There is a long stretch of bike path were many walkers were walking side-by-side. When you are trying to zone in and stay on pace, it is very difficult to have to think about weaving and navigating between people. This one idiot on a mountain bike almost hit me at one point. Once I hit Mile 20 I felt myself starting to slow a bit. I decided to stop checking my splits and just gut it out and run the best I could. There was one runner about 200 meters ahead of me. I just tried to focus on him and stay with him. I still felt real solid aerobically. My heart rate was lower than normal. Not sure if this was a result of minor dehydrating or not. My usual marathon HR is @ 146-148. I was running 143-145. My right foot which I have been having problems with since December starting acting up. It was completely numb in the forefoot area. Not sure how much that was affecting my physically, but it was just an added distraction. It is been 10 months of diagnosis and doctors visits and they still cannot determine why I am getting this. Splits:

Mile 19/20 13:57
Mile 21 7:17
Mile 22 7:14
Mile 23 7:12
Mile 24 7:16

Once I hit Mile 24 I knew I was going to finish. I still resisted the urge to look down at my watch as I did not want to be disappointed if I did not break 3 hours. My leg turnover was still pretty good at this point. Finally I hit Mile 25 and I had to look down. The watch said 2:52. I still thought I may have a chance at this goal after all. I was still passing a lot of walkers and made my way to the finish. I saw the clock for the first time and at that point it was already reading 3:01+. Crossed the finish line with a smile on my face. I was so glad to be done. I would have really liked to have met my goal, and I think under more optimal conditions I would have done it. However, I feel real fortunate that I did not have to suffer through the miserable conditions so many of my fellow marathoners had to endure over the weekend. Splits:

Mile 25 7:20
Mile 26 7:13
Last 0.2 1:36 (3:01:37) 9th overall; 1st AG

Now what do I do? I am going to take 4 weeks off no running. I think I may be done with marathons for a while. I really need to get my ailments taken care of before I embark on another marathon training cycle. In some respects it is hard to train for six months only to run slower. At age 42, I am not going to get any faster. Long gone are the days when I would improve 7 minutes every marathon I ran. I think I need to find a new challenge. I am extremely happy that I took my first Age Group award ever for a marathon. I have never run Boston before, that is still something I want to do, but I will have to be put off for the time being. I will probably try and get a qualifier when I turn 45 and hope to run Beantown then. Until that time, I want to get back to the fun of running. Unstructured training, trail running, etc. Throw in a couple of low-key 5K?s etc.

Best wishes to those folks who still have their races ahead of them. I will continue to follow this thread with earnest. Thanks for reading.


http://This message has been edited by GoDawgGo (edited Oct-08-2007).
Click to view Hannibal Granite's profile Pro 66 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
27. Oct 8, 2007 8:59 AM in response to: Gazelle2008
No running due to my sprained ankle last Friday, I did either the stationary bike or elliptical 6 of 7 days this week for at least an hour each time. I think I'm out for the January marathon as I my ankle still needs a few days before I can run on it and the training wasn't going well before that anyway. I think I'm going to take the next 6 weeks or so and just build my mileage back up a bit and then look at if I want to do a spring marathon.

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Click to view Penikese's profile Amateur 11 posts since
Aug 17, 2007
28. Oct 8, 2007 9:19 AM in response to: Gazelle2008
92heelgrad, stepstep and runninlaw good job in difficult conditions.
joplus - I think you made a smart move
bhearn and godawggo - Congratulations

My week (first taper week)

m: 0ff
tu: 7.5 w/ 4x600 intervals
w: 5 easy
th: off
fr: 4
sa: 7.5 w/ 10k race in 38:33
su: 16 w/ 3@MP

Saturday's race was my PR at 10k (probably because it was my first 10k ). Two weeks until goal.
Click to view thereshegoes's profile Legend 332 posts since
Jun 15, 2006
29. Oct 8, 2007 9:46 AM in response to: Gazelle2008
JohnnyJ Woah! Great job! Looks like someone underestimated himself when he made his goal

runninlaw I tracked you for a little while after I got home from my own long run in the jungle like weather. You were looking so good at the half I was so excited and then I just felt for you every time I checked. I wish I was there to give you a hug at the end. You did so well. I just hate that it's the second one in a row with an aserisk for you. Third time's a charm. You're going sub 3:20 in the next one!

joplus I agree with everyone. You made the right call. Want to come up and run Columbus with me?

rootsrunner Man. I was so ready for you to pr. Oh well. I hear the Columbus marathon 3:0x pace team needs someone. You interested?

godawggo So close! Can't wait to read the report.

92heelgrad Congrats on the pr! It's amazing considering you ran in hot soup!

After all you weekend racers went through this weekend I feel kind of silly posting my training for the week. Oh well. Here goes:

Su: AM 18 (avg 8:20) I ran 18 the day before including the 10k so my expectations were quite low. My first 2 miles were 9:00 and then I was gradually able to drop the pace to go confortably sub 8:00 the last 7 or so miles. Turned out pretty good. PM 4 slow gangly recovery miles

Mo: AM 4 (8:45); PM 6 (8:22)

Tu: 10 (8:29)

We: AM 6 (8:44); PM 4 + 6x100 strides (8:24)

Th: AM 3 (9:07); PM 14 including 8 mi w/u, 4 tempo (~6:42, 6:40, 6:37, 6:32--a guess. Garmin crapped out); 2 mi c/d including 5 x 100 strides.

Fr: 6.5 (8:38)

Sa: AM 6 (8:30); PM 6 (8:43)

Su: AM 20.5 (7:54) Easy pace until 18 and then 6:57, 6:37 last two miles. I knew I picked that last one up a little, but I was surprised it was so fast. It was hot and sticky and even so I felt comfortable. Good sign! PM 3 (300:00--ok, probably 9:15 )

Total: 89

I went a little OCD and changed my log to mon-sun because it makes it easier to sometimes do long runs on Saturdays and sometimes on Sundays. I hate the two long runs in one training week and none in the next phenomenon!

Taper begins right...now. Yeah!!!

Good weeks all!