Running a 3:00 marathon off of a 1:30 half

milkbaby004

447 posts since
Jul 28, 2003

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15. Dec 7, 2007 5:35 PM (in response to alan fletcher)

Re: Running a 3:00 marathon off of a 1:30 half

From all the responses above, it looks like you have your answer:

Nobody knows whether you will or won't run sub-3 in May!

You are not old, in fact you are young running-wise if you've only been running 18 months. Just keep training and see what your situation looks like when you are getting closer to race day. The most dramatic improvements in race performances tend to be early when folks start to get serious about racing, but you can never graph it out and know for sure because it just doesn't work that way.

As for your achilles injury, be careful with speedwork, hills, and make sure your shoes don't get too old. I've looked over the last few years of my running log, and there is a pretty good correlation to feeling dinged and running in old shoes, at least in my case. Good luck!!!

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crunningman

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Jun 7, 2002

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16. Dec 7, 2007 5:37 PM (in response to alan fletcher)

Re: Running a 3:00 marathon off of a 1:30 half

quote:
Originally posted by PacerChris:
Maybe consider running a 1:40 first half and see if you can run the second in 1:30. If you can do that, you'll pass people like crazy, you have a BQ by a long way, and you have the confidence that you can run a 1:30 2nd half in the fall. If you run a 1:40 1st half, that should be conservative enough that, even if you struggle, you should be able to run the same or slightly faster for the second half.

That would be the "Pig" course

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Guest

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17. Dec 7, 2007 6:08 PM (in response to alan fletcher)

Re: Running a 3:00 marathon off of a 1:30 half

Like many have said before me, May might be too soon. I am quite different than many here regarding my training though. I am a 44 year old male and just ran a 2:58 in Philly (was on pace for 2:55 but had a bad cold and started wheezing bad 18 miles in). I run typically 3 days a week at 40 miles on my LONGEST week, 30-35 most others. I ran a 1:22 in the Philly Distance Run this fall and that told me that I could probably break 3 hours. It took me a couple of years and some specific training but I believe you can do it if you don't rush yourself. Increasing your miles slowly and getting stronger along with specific speed work is the obvious way but again, like others have said, be patient and focus on one primary goal. I would get that BQ under my belt first then perhaps go for the sub 3 in the fall. Just my opinion. Good Luck!!!

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Ken Camet

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Dec 14, 2007

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18. Dec 7, 2007 6:26 PM (in response to alan fletcher)

Re: Running a 3:00 marathon off of a 1:30 half

Runaround you must have some deep running talent! 44 yo running 3 days a week at 40mpw and doing a 2:58 - just wow! I had 7 or 8 tries before my pr of 2:58 and I trained 13 days out of 14 and mileage peaked at 73 three weeks before the marathon. I was 40.

To the OP - as someone who has broken 3 (only once in 22 marathons) I think you have an excellent shot. Totally depends on your bodie's reaction to increased mileage but if you run consistently and get your mpw up to the 60 range and maybe a peek or two into the 70's you'll hit the 3 hour mark. In My Very Humble Opinion.

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Brian McN

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Dec 14, 2007

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19. Dec 7, 2007 7:06 PM (in response to alan fletcher)

Re: Running a 3:00 marathon off of a 1:30 half

I like Milkbaby's suggestion to just get out there, do the training and let the chips fall where they will. When I approach a Marathon I really don't set a time goal until about a month prior to it and that all depends on how certain races and workouts go.
What tells me that you have a real good shot at your goal though is that you have only been running for 18 months, you're still young enough to get that rapid improvement in the first couple of years of running, and you really haven't from what you have posted trained properly for the distance yet.
I don't necessarily agree that you have to obtain a certain time in the half Marathon while you are training for the Marathon in order to break 3 or any time goal. That may be true if you tapered for a half on your way to the full Marathon but most of us train right through those buildup races. I have a difficult time breaking my Marathon pace when I'm in a half Marathon because I'm not coming off a 2-1/2 week taper. I remember struggling to keep my Marathon pace in a 10 miler less then four weeks from my Marathon PR race.
So keep your eye on the prize and try to stay healthy. I love when someone tells me that I will get injured or burn out. Sometimes that's true, but sometimes it's not true. Everyone has a different view of this but I would prefer to take the risk. It's no fun for me otherwise.

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sue088

263 posts since
Aug 9, 1998

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20. Dec 11, 2007 11:03 AM (in response to alan fletcher)

Re: Running a 3:00 marathon off of a 1:30 half

quote:
Originally posted by RunForFun:
60-70 MPW can get you there

A steady diet (1-2x a week) of tempo runs - once a week long run (18-22 miles) Some of those long runs should be progressive and or include 5-10 miles at marathon pace in the later miles.

In my 1st season - I had a 1/2 M PR 1:25:58 and ran a 2:56:10 marathon on 70-80 MPW of training.

THink positve and train consistently - You do not have to kill yourself everyday - Just a high volume of consistency!

BTW - Year # 2 day a 1/2 marathon PR of 1:24:18 with a Marathon time of 2:49:16 - But I had upped my miles to 95-115 per week.

Good luck - Stay injury free!

yeah but, didn't one year you run a 1:25 and then a 2:46???
Which would kind of back up crunningman point of half times not always = marathon times if you are concentrating on the marathon exclusively. Which I agree, you don't need 1:25 speed to break 3 hours. It helps, though

All your miles gave you a huge base and you learned to run with "uncomfortableness" for a long time. Most people that can't run sub3 off a 1:25 half need to run their marathon in a "no-pain" zone.

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RunForFun001

626 posts since
Jan 25, 2007

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21. Dec 11, 2007 11:37 AM (in response to alan fletcher)

Re: Running a 3:00 marathon off of a 1:30 half

Sue - What is this "No Pain Zone"? I would agree that our bodies are capable of much more than we give them credit for or ask of them.

That is why I said if you do not taper for the half and run a 1:27 - You should be OK on 60-70 MPW if you are doing you speed work and progressive runs.

I would agree that you need to just continue solid training - See what shape you get into and then set your goal for the next race.

I always make up some sort of goal (Usually fantasy) and a plan to try and get there, but the last 2 weeks leading up to the race - I take a reality pill and form my real strategy to run the marathon. Then the night before/day of - I adjust the strategy for actual weather conditions.

The fun is in the journey -

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sue088

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22. Dec 20, 2007 10:39 PM (in response to alan fletcher)

Re: Running a 3:00 marathon off of a 1:30 half

no pain zone = 50 mile pace

[http://This message has been edited by sue (edited Dec-11-2007).|http://This message has been edited by sue (edited Dec-11-2007).]

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slimfastshady

66 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

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23. Dec 11, 2007 3:10 PM (in response to alan fletcher)

Re: Running a 3:00 marathon off of a 1:30 half

quote:
Originally posted by sue:

All your miles gave you a huge base and you learned to run with "uncomfortableness" for a long time. Most people that can't run sub3 off a 1:25 half need to run their marathon in a "no-pain" zone.

Sue. I am a relative novice running next Aprils Boston , aiming for 3 hours off an October 3.10PB and a September 1.25 half PB. Can you explain in more detail what you mean - I'd be really grateful as I'm looking for any tips I can get.
derek

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sue088

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Aug 9, 1998

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24. Dec 11, 2007 8:02 PM (in response to alan fletcher)

Re: Running a 3:00 marathon off of a 1:30 half

quote:
Originally posted by slimfastshady:

Sue. I am a relative novice running next Aprils Boston , aiming for 3 hours off an October 3.10PB and a September 1.25 half PB. Can you explain in more detail what you mean - I'd be really grateful as I'm looking for any tips I can get.
derek

hope I don't sound flippant, RunForFun and I live in the same city and I'm aware of his background of high volume and easy running he has done over the years.

The only tip I can really offer with your race coming up very soon and not having RFF base background, is to make sure there is a purpose to your run. It is either aerobic basebuilding or definitely not. Because you state you are a novice, I hope that after your September race that you went back to slow base building. If you aren't running a threshold run or a marathon paced run, make sure that you are running slower (guessing around 7:30...give or take 20 seconds) on any other given run.

Taking 20 secs per mile at an already fast pace is not going to be an easy feat. For that reason I'd put some marathon paced runs into my long run end of Jan/earlyFeb, every week progressively, 2 miles at 6:52, 4, 6...back off to every other at double digits. Again, make sure the rest of the long run is 7:30+. Your second hard run of the week is threshold. I have no idea what yours is but I'd guess somewhere 6:15-6:20 is where you should be working for a sub3.