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8449 Views 14 Replies Latest reply: Jun 29, 2011 1:06 PM by CatDogFan RSS
Active_Greg Amateur 21 posts since
Sep 26, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Jun 1, 2010 12:06 PM

How does your league pick All Stars?

Summer is here, school is out for most kids - it's time for summer fun and for some kids, this is a special time as they have been invited to play on All Star teams. I read an article recently where a local league was not fielding All Star teams as they felt it was unfair and demoralized the other kids who were not selected.

 

How does your league pick All Stars?

 

Should All Stars be allowed? Are All Star programs bad for kids?

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Jun 7, 2010 12:33 PM (in response to Active_Greg)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

    "I read an article recently where a local league was not fielding All Star teams as they felt it was unfair and demoralized the other kids who were not selected."

     

    They're idiots !!!

    Poor little Johnny feels bad because he didn't make the All Star team.

    So, we should punish the kids that do make it - not give them the opportunity to play/

     

    No more dodge ball, no more jumping rope, no more All Stars - what a joke.   ;o(

  • Brian F Doyle Rookie 2 posts since
    Feb 16, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Jun 10, 2010 11:19 AM (in response to Active_Greg)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

    Each team's head coach and assistant coaches get together and vote for the top six players... After that, we hand pick 6 additional players that the head and asst. coaches of the All star team want; totaling 12 players

     

    Should there be an allstar team?

     

    Absolutely!!!

  • AR_Zeen Rookie 3 posts since
    May 27, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Jun 15, 2010 8:28 PM (in response to Brian F Doyle)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

    I think the concept of an Allstar team is a great idea in theory, but in practice in some leagues nepotism, favoritism and "Daddy Ball" are so out of control that it is a joke.

     

    In my son's league you had 3 coaches for the 8 year old all star team.   That ate up 3 roster spots. Do you really need 3 coaches for an 8 year old allstar team???  Give me a break.  That is just the highly visible favoritism.  I wonder how much favoritism is happening behind the scenes for the other 9 spots. 

     

    Either way, I'm cool that my son didn't make the team,  but what burns me up is that these coaches would not even make a phone call to tell the rejected kids they didn't make it, and what they need to work on to improve to possibly have a chance to make it next year.   They left you hanging. If you didn't receive a phone call by 5 pm you didn't make the team.  What a bunch of cowards.   I really wish they would have called my son to say something like "Thanks for trying out.  You did a nice job with hitting, but we felt you need to work on your throwing accuracy.  That took guts to try out, and you should be proud of that, blah, blah blah..."  For crying out loud, the kid is 8 years old.  He worked hard all off season practicing baseball, the least they could do is blow a little sunshine up his but or something.   All I know, is I watched the entire tryout and saw my son hit a line drive off every ball they pitched him, caught every pop-up, fielded every grounded except for one.  I noticed my son could not reach on the long throw from 3rd to first on zero bounces, but I also saw only 2 of the kids could actually make the throw.  I'm not saying my son was the best kid in the pack, but I watched all the kids and only 4 kids hit the ball farther/harder than him.  Objectively, I would have rated my son 5th or 6th among the group.  If you want to say I'm not being objective, you can bring him down a couple of notches to 8th or 9th but that still should make the team.   He was also the only left handed bat, and he was the only representative from his regular season team to attend the tryouts.

     

    I have heard of other leagues where the coaches for the 10 year olds select the 9 years old team, and the coaches from the 9 year old team select the 10s etc...   This seems like a more equitable approach as the coaches won't know most of the players and can hopefully be more objective.

  • HOTROD__1 Rookie 6 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Jun 17, 2010 6:02 AM (in response to AR_Zeen)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

    it never changes anywhere you go..my suggestion would have been let objective coaches from other age groups divisions select the plyers

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Jun 27, 2010 6:27 AM (in response to AR_Zeen)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

    Two things:

     

    First, your Board decides how the Tournament (All Star Players) are selected.

    LL has a "recommended" method but it's up to each league how they do it.

    In a lot of leagues the "players" vote and the top 9 or 10 players who get the most vote are on the team.

    After that, the Tournament Team manager/coaches pick the last 2-3 kids to "fill out the roster.'

    In fact, in some leagues the manager/coaches picks must be from the players who were in the next 5 or 10 player voting list, otherwise the selection needs to be approved by the BOD.

    Is that the "right way" to do it, maybe, maybe not, whatever "works" for your league is what you should do.

     

    Second, around here most leagues do NOT hold tryouts.

    The kids played all year long, their skills are "known."

    So, with a hundred or so kids there is no way the manager is calling 80 or so kids to tell them "sorry you didn't make the team but if you work on ________(fill in the blank) you might make it next year."

    Now, if you had tryouts and there were 20 or so kids I would think it would be a "courtesy" to call the kids that didn't make it.

     

    PS: I hate Daddy Ball - the league needs to put the Best Available Players on the Tournament Teams (although that's often easier said than done!)

  • juvmag Rookie 3 posts since
    Jul 9, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Jul 3, 2010 6:32 PM (in response to Active_Greg)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

         My little league had a tryout for 11-12 year old all-stars. The tryout did not include hitting but they had the kids try to lay down bunts!!!

         The all-stars have always been picked by the managers of all of the teams in the league and each manager was supposed to nominate 3-4 players from their own team. This year after the tryout, the manager of my son's team tried to participate in the manager's meeting to select all-stars but was barred from the meeting and the vote on the basis that he hadn't sold tickets for the reverse raffle. 2 0f 7 managers then proceeded to select 16 kids for the all-star team. But they had to tryout until the first game and then they were gonna pick the 12 active players and 2 alternates.

         I am not sure why the rest of the managers didn't get to vote but preventing my son's manager from voting based on not selling reverse raffle tickets is frankly cheating. The kids should be picking the all-stars anyway but when you can't even follow your own rules and procedure and you create a new "fundraising" rule w/o ever announcing it ahead of time, the league should lose its little league charter. Some people can't afford to go to a reverse raffle. So you're gonna penalize the kids because of that. Shame on you!

         My son's manager had been telling me and my son for 2 weeks that he was definitely on the all-star team because all the managers were voting for him. But somehow he didn't make it and 3 other kids from our team made it.. My son was the best player on our team and he had shut down the all-star manager's team for 4 innings two days before the tryout. 2 of the kids who made it from our team pitched terribly in relief and we lost. There is simply no way that there were 16 players in that league better than my son. Why else would he be the starting pitcher and 3rd batter for our first playoff game? Really, 3 other players from our team make it over our number one starter and #3 hitter?

         This all-star team lost their first game 15-2. I guess they could have used a decent pitcher.

         Little league rules strongly suggest that the kids vote on all-stars  but don't require it. It's time for little league to mandate a selection process and roster size. Just have it so the kids cannot vote for their own teammates and it would necessarily be more fair than the manager-fathers picking their sons and their friends.

  • juvmag Rookie 3 posts since
    Jul 9, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Jul 3, 2010 6:49 PM (in response to juvmag)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

         This little league has failed and refused to put their local rules such as the all-star selection process in writing. That way they can make the rules up as they go along. 

  • AR_Zeen Rookie 3 posts since
    May 27, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Jul 3, 2010 6:57 PM (in response to juvmag)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

    Based on your story, it sounds like you are in the exact same little league as me (except my son is 8). In my league there is absolutely no documentation on the website regarding anything aout all stars, all star selection process, time committment for all stars etc...  Nothing.   They didn't let us know about all star tryouts until 2 days before the tryout.  My son's coach was also on the outside looking in.

  • juvmag Rookie 3 posts since
    Jul 9, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Jul 3, 2010 7:31 PM (in response to AR_Zeen)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

    I'm thinking of reporting my little league to Williamsport. They get away w/ it b/c people are afraid it will hurt their kids. They've already hurt my kid. Half of the coaches and kids from last year left b/c they were fed up w/ them. They've ruined the league already. Maybe Williamsport will throw the bums out.

  • AR_Zeen Rookie 3 posts since
    May 27, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Jul 3, 2010 7:57 PM (in response to juvmag)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

    My wife tried calling Williamsport about this but they didn't give a rats ***. They probably get calls like all the time and have no idea how to handle it, nor do they give 2 shits if little Johnny didn't make the team.  I think you might get their attention with a well written letter, particularly if you CC other interested parties such as the better business bureau, and the local media.  The last thing they want is any kind of negative press....thats for sure.

     

    From what I have been told, this concept of "daddy ball" is a huge problem all over, and people have been leaving in droves to play in the independent leagues/travel ball, etc...

     

    What I did for my son was find an out of town league that actually has summer recreational ball, and he is currently playing in it,  and happy as a clam.  No tryouts. No coach's egos.   I've decided to simply keep him working at it, and practicing. He is only 8.  It if turns out he is going to be any good, then he will eventually make his middle school team when he's older, and maybe his high school team down the road.  At that time, the concept of little league will be small potatoes, a distant memory, and it won't matter much.

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Jul 7, 2010 11:17 AM (in response to AR_Zeen)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

    It's not that Williamsport doesn't care it's that they leave the selection of the Tournament (All Star) Teams up to the Local League.

    People accuse LL of "mandating" everything yet when they let leagues decide how to do things for themselves people want LL to step in and take over.

    Little League has a "recommended method" for selecting the players but if your league (BOD) wants to do it a different way (and many/most leagues do) then that's OK with LL.

     

    Every year the Members in Your Local League elect Your BOD to run the program.

    If you don't like what your BOD is doing then get some people together andvote them out and vote a new BOD in (maybe including yourself and others with similar views on how to run the leauge).

    Many/most league elections are in the fall so it's time to start getting involved (often easier said than done but so be it).

     

    I've said it many times, it's the people running the local league that make it a good or a bad league and that goes for Little League, PONY League, Dixie League, etc, etc, etc.

  • DBeevers Rookie 1 posts since
    Jun 21, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Jun 21, 2011 9:44 AM (in response to Active_Greg)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

    In most youth leagues, do all of the teams on the league have representation on the All Stars team? My Grandson's team was totally excluded from the All Stars team.We were shocked. We thought "All" stars meant that all of the teams were represented.

     

    The coaches each nominated 3 or 4 players from their teams and then a larger group of coaches and managers voted.

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Jun 21, 2011 10:53 AM (in response to DBeevers)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

    I do not know of any leagues that require at least one player from each team be an All Star.

    The "best players" should be selected and there can indeed be teams whose players are not selected.

     

    In the majority of leagues around here the kids vote.

    Depending on the league, the 9 or 10 kids that get the most votes make the team.

    The manager and coaches get to choose the rest of the team (2, 3, maybe 4 players).

    One or two leagues have a stipulation that the players chosen by the managers/caoches have to be within the 6-8 next highest vote getters (prevents a manager/caoch from picking his kid if he truly should not be on the team).

    That said, in those leagues, if the manager/coaches want a kid not in the next 6-8 they can ask the Board for permission (maybe they want another catcher or a speedy runner, whatever).

     

    It's up to the local league BOD on how they select their team(s) and the method should be described in their By-Laws/Local Rule PRIOR to the start of the season.

    That way everyone knows how it will be done well ahead of time.

  • CatDogFan Amateur 21 posts since
    Apr 7, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    14. Jun 29, 2011 1:06 PM (in response to Active_Greg)
    Re: How does your league pick All Stars?

    Hi,

     

    Some of you sound kind of bitter that your kid did not make the team... Here are some thoughts from someone whose been down the same road you are on.

     

    In any league there will be a handful of people who feel they (or their kid) is better than someone who made the team.

     

    I have heard that the All Star team's first 8 or so kids are obvious,  but that typically there are about 8 kids for the last four spots. Those are the toughest decisions to make.

     

    Another idea is the reality of daddy ball. That concept was addressed by Cal Ripkin in a book (Parenting Young Athletes the Ripkin Way) of his I just finished reading. IN that book, Ripkin discussed a college coach whose son was trying out for his team. The dad was asked about his son's chances if there was one spot left and two players of similar ability, one of which being his son.  The coach, being very candid, said if it came down to that, the other player would have to be significantly better to get picked over his son. While some coaches / managers might not be so open about that, I am guessing the idea holds true for most people... Family comes first.

     

    So, what do you do? Like someone said, try to join your board of directors. Or, even better, manage a team. Also, get out to the field and show support for those who made it. I am sure your son has friends on the team.

     

    When my kid didn't make it (and of course we felt he should have :-)  ), we still supported our league's team. It would have been nice if our kid was playing, but my son and I got to watch a lot of baseball together. In the end, it was some great bonding time.

     

    I am not knocking you or your very real frustration that your child did not make it, but I am not knocking Little League either. The reality is that there are probably many families in every league who feel exactly the way you do. Like I said, we were there ourselves. Trying to take the league down for it will not help your kid's chances in the future.

     

    As to the question, should All Stars be allowed? I give it a strong yes. Rejection is a healthy dose of reality for many kids and parents. I will say, however, that at the Minor level (10 YO) it does create an interesting quandary. Since minors is supposed to be developmental, you'd think people want their kids getting better at a position they do not know so well. But with all stars in the mix, if little Jonny is an awesome third baseman, that's where the parents usually want him - so that he can show off his all star ability and hopefully make the team.... If it were purely developmental, they may have him work on other positions (yes, even outfield) to get better at those and become a more complete player. But all stars, in a way, takes some of that development away... Still, I give all stars an overall thumbs up.

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