Estimated 800m time for me ...

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22 Replies Last post: Jan 25, 2003 1:18 PM by Guest 1 2 Previous Next

Guest

Dec 29, 2002 4:39 PM

Estimated 800m time for me

I did my first real track workout yesterday....so the actual workout (not including the drills, stair circuit and medball) was 5 sets of:

300m, 1.5min break, 200m, 1min break, 100m and a set break of 2.5 min

and my times for the 300's were: 46, 45, 44, 43, 42
and the 200's were: 29, 28, 27, 28, 28
the 100's weren't timed.

I was wondering what you guys think I would be able to run in the 800m right now. I know i know it's way too early in the season especially since i'm coming off a hardcore cross country season but i'm curious to see what to expect in indoors.

Wile E

324 posts since
Jul 25, 2000

1. Dec 29, 2002 6:39 PM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

Indoors? 200m? spikes? how bout 2:03.2

Maybe better given you have some strength from Xcountry. Tough to tell without more info like 400-600m+ times. You certainly have the speed.

Nice workout and good luck

Guest

2. Dec 29, 2002 6:43 PM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

looks like u should be able to do at least 2:10, most likely a 2:05ish. You might want to add in longer speed workouts, distance wise that is. Throw in some 400s and 600s, thats will help you see what your time should be. Well good luck!!!

CoachB008

777 posts since
Apr 27, 2000

3. Dec 20, 2007 11:08 PM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

Um, right now, I'd say wile E is pretty close.

I'd say about 1:56-1:57 down the road if you play your cards right. It seems like you did a pretty hefty workout for your first time out. If you could do the same workout with say, 30 seconds between repetitions and the same time between sets then you would be ready to go.

here is another one to try once you get toward race fitness

600 @ 800 m race pace 100 jog then 300 @ 800 pace.

This could be followed by some all out 150 reps or some pace 200's

Let's add the needed high volume short rest workouts as well

Long reps like 3x1000 @ 2:50-2:55 with 5 min rest

High Volume Deals like 16 x 200 @ 32-33 with 30 seconds rest.

I'm sure your coach is well up on all that is needed for you to run fast. It seems like you are off to a good start. Careful with the hard core speed so early (of course, maybe you are in indoor right now and that would change the equation)

http://This message has been edited by CoachB (edited Dec-29-2002).

Guest

4. Dec 30, 2002 1:26 PM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

Thanks for the input everyone.
2:10/2:05-- wow i hope not!
Wile E, half the workout was done in spikes. As for my strength and crosscountry, I ran 26:49 for 8k this year (my best time was 29:05 last year on the same course). My outdoor track pr's with my little strength last year were: 52.8 for the 400m, 1:56.1 for the 800m and 4:05.1 for the 1500m.

CoachB, I've more or less been doing the workouts that you mentioned. For example instead of 16x200's, we did 7 sets of change of pace continous 600's with 2 minutes rest between each set. The change of pace 600's went as follows: 200 hard (30-31 seconds), 200 moderate (42-45 seconds), 200 hard ( ~31 seconds). It's good to know that I'm doing the right workouts.

Wile E

324 posts since
Jul 25, 2000

5. Dec 30, 2002 2:14 PM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

quote:<HR>Originally posted by fastnfurious:
Thanks for the input everyone.
2:10/2:05-- wow i hope not!
Wile E, half the workout was done in spikes. As for my strength and crosscountry, I ran 26:49 for 8k this year (my best time was 29:05 last year on the same course). My outdoor track pr's with my little strength last year were: 52.8 for the 400m, 1:56.1 for the 800m and 4:05.1 for the 1500m.
<HR>

Oh...very nice. That's an impressive 8K for a middle distance runner. I'd suggest keeping the 1500/mile in your back pocket. For the 800; if all goes well, you could easily be in the 1:52-53 range at the end of outdoor. You'll likely need to drop your 400m time to get there. For indoors, I was asking more about the race conditions/ track size use of spikes etc.

Are you HS or college?

coacht017

153 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

6. Dec 20, 2007 11:08 PM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

Your wide range is good. I assume you are a collegiate athlete since you ran 8k not 5k for XC. If you can get the 400 comfortably under 50 you should be able to make a quantum leap in the 800.
Hard 300s and 600s at max effort later in the season will yield great results. Also hard 100s in some volume will help the pure speed. The drills, circuits, etc. you are doing are also very helpful. Set your goal at 1:50 and go for it. That's a time that separates the men from the boys. Stay away from racing 3000/5000 and try to run some 4x400 relay legs and some 600s indoors.
The 800 is a muscle race, its more like a long 400 not a short distance race. You must wrap your mind around this concept if you want to specialize in the 800 successfully. Learn to stretch speed over 800 instead of trying to compress endurance. A 48-50 400 will let you open up in 53-55 with little difficulty. From there your strength over 8k can help you get home very well, but you cannot float a 53 if your best is 52. If you can get there in the 800 you may have a very pleasant surprise in store for yourself in the 1500 considering your ability over 8k.
The key to a quality 800 is the 400 not the 1500. I have trained some excellent 800 runners and was not slow at it myself. One thing I learned was that running faster intervals with longer rest intervals was more beneficial than slower intervals with a very short recovery once base strength was developed. Short rest training has more benefit for 1500 and up where pure speed is less a factor. Aerobic ability has value in that it allows you to train hard, but its mostly anaerobic ability that lets you race fast 800s.
At speeds under 1:55 the 800 starts to be more kin to the 400 than the 1500. If you are unable to get the 400 down then maybe you should specialize on the 1500.
Good luck.

http://This message has been edited by coacht (edited Dec-30-2002).

CoachB008

777 posts since
Apr 27, 2000

7. Jan 1, 2003 10:28 PM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

I'm going to ammend my previous estimate. I, for some reason, was assuming that you were a High Schooler. Your 8k time was great for a 800 runner.

Based on what you have written, I'd say sub 1:54 is very doable. The 1:50 mentioned by Coacht might be a year or two off, or it might be right around the corner. Without seeing your progression of PR's to this point, it is really hard to predict where you will go.

The reason that I estimated 1:56 previously is that I lacked informaion about you. The workout you posted would not be impressive for a speed oriented runner who maybe "ran" cross country in h.s. and say hit 18:30 for 5k in. However, your 8k time indicates that you have the aerobic power to run at a much faster pace without accumulating lactate and thus, your 27's and 28's all of a sudden seem like more of a realistic race pace.

My sophomore year in college, I ran against Brandon Rock in Cross. I smoked him and didn't think anything of it untill I saw him run under 1:50 in track. I think that Rock eventually got down into the 1:46's and I don't think that he ever had sub 27 8k aerobic power (but he did have sub 46 quarter speed).

Another example that might be closer to home for you is that of a teammate of mine in college. Our junior year, he started with a PR somewhere in the 1:58's. After a cross season where he ran right around 26:49 (I don't remember his actuall time, but it was around there) he went on to lower his 800 time to 1:53.2 and pull off a 3rd in our conference meet. An interesting note about this guy is that he didn't even qualify for the conference meet until the last race of the season. Sub 1:58 was the qualifier and he ran 1:58.x all season long until just exploding at the end of the year.

Good luck to you this year.

P.S. at which college do you run?

Guest

8. Jan 2, 2003 4:47 PM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

Thanks again, it's great to see the friendly and insightful responses on this site.

I'm a sophomore in Simon Fraser University (http://www.sfu.ca/picture-gallery/sfu.jpg). We compete in the NAIA.

I very much agree with you all; the 400m will be crucial in determining how much my 800m time will improve this year. I've been doing a some weight training and plyometrics for the first time this year--I'm hoping that will out my 400m time somewhat. I think I also need to work on pacing in the 400m. When I ran 52.8 last year, i hit the 200m mark in 23.1; however, I hadn't actually covered 200m because I was in lane 5 and the outer lanes start ahead of the inner lanes in order to make up the difference in distance around a track. It was more like 185 meters--nevertheless, it was fast for me.

As for my progression, I started running in grade 11 and ran 18:02 in my first and only 5k on the road that year and I ran 2:08 / 4:35 for the 800m/1500m respectively in track that year.

Grade 12: I had a breakthrough season this year. I started off running 2:06's in the 800m and eventually got down to 1:57.6 that year which was the only time I went sub 2 minutes in highschool. It was the hardest race I've ever done in my life so far; I can almost still feel the pain to this day

My 1500m time was 4:11. My 400m time was 53.5.

Freshman in college: In cross country, I was running in the low 29's for 8k--a mediocre cross season. In track, I had trouble breaking 2 minutes all indoor season but eventually I got down to 1:56.1 in outdoors. I think it took me a while to adjust to college training plus the courseload is a lot different than highschool...not to mention most the meets are away from home so you can't eat your regular meals, do your regular routines etc. I think I'm well adjusted to this now. For anyone who is making a transfer from highschool to college, don't be discouraged if you don't make a substantial improvement in your first year. I think Alan webb had this problem.
1500m time 4:05.1; 400m time 52.8.

Sophomore in college: Breakthrough cross country season got me down to 26:49. It'll be interesting to see how this actually affects track performances.

Guest

9. Dec 20, 2007 11:08 PM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

quote:<HR>Originally posted by fastnfurious:
Thanks again, it's great to see the friendly and insightful responses on this site.

I'm a sophomore in Simon Fraser University (http://www.sfu.ca/picture-gallery/sfu.jpg). We compete in the NAIA.

I very much agree with you all; the 400m will be crucial in determining how much my 800m time will improve this year. I've been doing a some weight training and plyometrics for the first time this year--I'm hoping that will out my 400m time somewhat. I think I also need to work on pacing in the 400m. When I ran 52.8 last year, i hit the 200m mark in 23.1; however, I hadn't actually covered 200m because I was in lane 5 and the outer lanes start ahead of the inner lanes in order to make up the difference in distance around a track. It was more like 185 meters--nevertheless, it was fast for me.

As for my progression, I started running in grade 11 and ran 18:02 in my first and only 5k on the road that year and I ran 2:08 / 4:35 for the 800m/1500m respectively in track that year.

Grade 12: I had a breakthrough season this year. I started off running 2:06's in the 800m and eventually got down to 1:57.6 that year which was the only time I went sub 2 minutes in highschool. It was the hardest race I've ever done in my life so far; I can almost still feel the pain to this day My 1500m time was 4:11. My 400m time was 53.5.

Freshman in college: In cross country, I was running in the low 29's for 8k--a mediocre cross season. In track, I had trouble breaking 2 minutes all indoor season but eventually I got down to 1:56.1 in outdoors. I think it took me a while to adjust to college training plus the courseload is a lot different than highschool...not to mention most the meets are away from home so you can't eat your regular meals, do your regular routines etc. I think I'm well adjusted to this now. For anyone who is making a transfer from highschool to college, don't be discouraged if you don't make a substantial improvement in your first year. I think Alan webb had this problem.
1500m time 4:05.1; 400m time 52.8.

Sophomore in college: Breakthrough cross country season got me down to 26:49. It'll be interesting to see how this actually affects track performances. <HR>

fnf:
Congratulations on your improvement, especially this fall in Cross. As you can see from your track workout, developing stamina, as you did in XC, doesn't reduce your speed, in fact it enhances the type of speed needed in the middle distances.

You can approach the 800 as either a 400/800 runner, or as an 800/1500. I'm afraid that if you were the former, you would have already gone near or under 50 seconds. On the other hand, your 4:05 is much better than your 400 time and with over a two-minute improvement in your 8K this past fall, sub-4:00 seems likely, and sooner rather than later. As you know, this is a good 1500 time in the NAIA. I would suggest that you talk to your coach about your long-term development, including a serious run at the 1500 at some point (probably maintaining your focus on the 800 this year, and certainly not neglecting your 400). With only about three years of development behind you, you can still increase your speed, but your stamina can improve by much more. So keep building on that strength that you developed in cross.

I assume you will be running at the UW in the next few months? It is a great facility, and you can look forward to running fast there. I'll look forward to cheering you on (I run middle distances for Club NW).

http://This message has been edited by Hangninthere (edited Jan-04-2003).

Guest

10. Jan 5, 2003 1:23 AM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Hangninthere:
.
I assume you will be running at the UW in the next few months? It is a great facility, and you can look forward to running fast there. I'll look forward to cheering you on (I run middle distances for Club NW).

<HR>

Yep, we race in UW for the most part in indoors... it's got a very nice new indoor track as you mentioned. Our first meet is on the 18th which is only 2 weeks away!
Thanks, I'll also cheer for Club NW.

coacht017

153 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

11. Jan 5, 2003 4:29 PM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

You can approach the 800 as either a 400/800 runner, or as an 800/1500. I'm afraid that if you were the former, you would have already gone near or under 50 seconds.

I am not convinced this is altogether accurate. If you haven't worked on 400 speed it isn't safe to say you cannot develop it. Having dropped from 52 to 47 for 400 through my own college career as a middle distance runner many moons ago leads me to believe it can be developed by someone who has already demonstrated some definite ability at 800. Considering the 200 split of 23.1 enroute to a 52.8 shows not a lack of speed but a serious lack of muscle stamina, and that can be readily improved with hard 300-600 repeats about once a week.

swedechick

1,230 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

12. Jan 19, 2003 5:39 PM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

quote:<HR>Originally posted by fastnfurious:
I did my first real track workout yesterday....so the actual workout (not including the drills, stair circuit and medball) was 5 sets of:

300m, 1.5min break, 200m, 1min break, 100m and a set break of 2.5 min

and my times for the 300's were: 46, 45, 44, 43, 42
and the 200's were: 29, 28, 27, 28, 28
the 100's weren't timed.

I was wondering what you guys think I would be able to run in the 800m right now. I know i know it's way too early in the season especially since i'm coming off a hardcore cross country season but i'm curious to see what to expect in indoors.<HR>

ur running those 300s at around under 2:10 pace i know that much.

CoachB008

777 posts since
Apr 27, 2000

13. Jan 19, 2003 6:18 PM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

45 seconds per 300 = 60 seconds per 400 = 120 seconds per 800

46's and below are not 2:10 pace

fredurie

1,979 posts since
Aug 21, 2002

14. Dec 20, 2007 11:08 PM

in response to: Guest

Re: Estimated 800m time for me

quote:<HR>Originally posted by coacht:
Short rest training has more benefit for 1500 and up where pure speed is less a factor. Aerobic ability has value in that it allows you to train hard, but its mostly anaerobic ability that lets you race fast 800s.
At speeds under 1:55 the 800 starts to be more kin to the 400 than the 1500. If you are unable to get the 400 down then maybe you should specialize on the 1500.
Good luck.

http://This message has been edited by coacht (edited Dec-30-2002).<HR>

Yes, Brannen is using X-Country as his base this year, so
you are in good company.

Kru is the dominant American at 800, and he eliminated
the aerobic focus in his training. The question is do you
have enough longterm aerobic development. If you do, than
Coach T's definitive prescription is the way to go. Kru did
not become world class until de Oliveira shifted him to
maximum speed training ( and that included sets of 100's
and quality plyometrics).

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Dec 29, 2002 4:39 PM

Estimated 800m time for me

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