Improvement in HS times ...

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16 Replies Last post: Apr 30, 2003 6:16 PM by Guest 1 2 Previous Next

CoachB008

777 posts since
Apr 27, 2000

Apr 24, 2003 5:25 PM

Improvement in HS times

These last few years have seen a dramatic increase in the quality of HS distance runners. (see the most recent T&FN list http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/lists/2003/prep_out_m.html[/URL" target="_blank"> ) I have a question for this board.

Do you think that the ability to share information so rapidly, as is fostered by the internet, is responsible for this surge in performance? (ie. are coaches and athletes spured to shoot for higher and higher goals because they can quickly see what is going on all over the country?)

For those who coach: Has the way that you train your athletes been in any way modified by information that you have gotten off the web?

For me the answer is yes. Sites like www.mariusbakken.com[/URL" target="_blank"> and www.coacheseducation.com[/URL" target="_blank"> not to mention kemibe's high school site (sorry, lost the link) have given me a number of good ideas, which I have incorporated into my training

Guest

1. Apr 24, 2003 7:55 PM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

CoachB. I would like to add a question to yours in that if you have noted a significant improvement in the distance runners is this not all the more remarkable in that schools now offer more spring sports and thus dilute the candidate pool? Is it possible the coaches and community running clubs are spotting talent earlier in a runner's development and then encouraging them to purse this path? In the old days (all the way back to the late 1970s!) one had a choice between baseball and track in the sping. For the distaff side there was a possiblilty of softball. Now we see volleyball, more tennis, and spring soccer compete for the talent. I would venture that good runners are identified earlier and channeled to where training and the exchange of information is reaping rewards.
Uk

Guest

2. Apr 25, 2003 12:20 AM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

Well of course i run really slow but when the coach says that somebody on the other side of the state is really fast i suddenly start trying and running harder. Cuz I only try if other people run fast because that has so much to do with my ability.

coacht017

153 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

3. Apr 25, 2003 8:45 AM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

I coach track athletes at a local HS. The one hardcore distance runner is my stepson who spends hours a week online IM contact with distance runners all over the country, many of whom are on the national list. There is a vibrant community online of these kids and it has their interest focused keenly on their endeavors to be good runners. Many schools track/xc teams have web sites and message boards and there are statewide websites/message boards in just about every state and then there are sites like Dyestat that are national in focus. All of this has given HS distance running a boost in intensity if not in participation. This open communication between the kids and their access to information about training and racing coupled with their great ability to sift out the baloney has led to this resurgence in HS distance running. It's about time. The one thing I have noticed is their drive to run high mileage and their reverance for the great runners over the past 50 years. Over the next ten years we may see a resurgence of American distance running on the world scene, at least that's my hope.
There is competition for athletes from other sports. There is a strong competition for athletes with baseball and soccer, especially in areas where the schools are modest in size. It's a numbers game. In my part of the world it also breaks on race. The white kids play baseball and soccer and the black kids run track. The black kids typically run sprints and the white kids run distance. The white kids with good sprint speed are usually on the soccer field. There are always notable excepions but the trend is pretty solid in this part of the world.
All in all the future is bright and I look forward to see how it develops.

Guest

4. Apr 25, 2003 11:50 PM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

Yea chatting with other runners really helps. Some people say stuff like "I ran really far today" Or im gonna run really fast at that next race. Or my time is faster than yours. Or my team has really good runners. All this brillant info helps to make people run so much faster.

CoachB008

777 posts since
Apr 27, 2000

5. Apr 26, 2003 12:03 AM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

I have coached in two different time periods BI (Before Internet) and AI (the year of our internet). Prior to the increased communication of fast times. If a kid saw a guy run 4:30 at a local invitational, he thought, "wow, 4:30 that's so fast, I can only run 5:15 right now. I hope someday I can run 4:30"

Now, a kid might go to some meet and see the winner run 4:25 and say, "man, that was pretty good, but in Texas, there are 4 guys under 4:10. We need to get on the ball around here"

BI, if your coach had you do a workout, you thought, "man, that was a hard workout." "I don't know if I could do 12x400 again". AI that same kid might say, "that was pretty tough." Then he goes home and gets on coolrunning or dyestat or letsrun and he hears about all kinds of folks running harder workouts, so his perception of his own limits change.

Obviously, nobody is going to get faster by chatting on IM, but peoples perceptions of what is possible are altered now as a result of the internet. IMHO

UK BTW. In my school, kids can choose from track, baseball/softball, golf, tennis, girls have soccer and swimming will be added next year. Nonetheless, my numbers have gone up steadily for the last 4 years.

Guest

6. Dec 20, 2007 11:25 PM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

I am just in my 4th year coaching track and completed my first in xc. My original and real job at the school is custodian. I work in a small school district that allowed me to split my work day up to coach.I retired from the Navy and started this job. It has been over 30 years since I had really thought about track and I never dreamed of coaching it. I got started the first year because a week before the season started they still didn't have a coach and was talking about not having it, so I asked for the job. My memory started filling with what I could remember of workouts for the distant people, some High jump and long jump. Nothing for the sprinter or relays, shot or discus. Amazingly they were not even close to whay the kids needed. I was able to make it thru the first year with the help of the 8th graders and advice and work out cards from the high school coach, which I ran for 30 years ago. That summer I discovered the information on the net, and now everything comes from various sites that I read constantly. I could not or would I have the time to find all the info that I needed at a library. The main problem I have is to apply everything to a middle school program. It seems all the workouts are pointed at high school, college or higher up. We are in a small school that only has 240 students in 7 and 8th grades, and trying to fill 4 teams is hard sometimes. Teaching fundamentals and having fun to all the kids is a challenge but fun.
For the high school programs the kids are allowed to double up in the sports like baseball and track, softball and track, xc and golf and if it wasn't allowed we would have a hard time filling some teams. We had one guy graduate last year with 20 varsity letters. He was really decent in all the sports, but I always will wonder what he would have been like not doubling up.
So yes, the net has helped my programs for my teams. My high school coach is still coaching like he did when I ran for him, the same workouts and the same ideas on running. I plan on trying to change some of the workouts if he is willing, if not I will have to wait for the time he retires.

http://This message has been edited by flags (edited Apr-27-2003).

swedechick

1,230 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

7. Apr 27, 2003 8:25 AM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

quote:<HR>Originally posted by CoachB:
These last few years have seen a dramatic increase in the quality of HS distance runners. (see the most recent T&FN list http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/lists/2003/prep_out_m.html[/URL" target="_blank"> ) I have a question for this board.

Do you think that the ability to share information so rapidly, as is fostered by the internet, is responsible for this surge in performance? (ie. are coaches and athletes spured to shoot for higher and higher goals because they can quickly see what is going on all over the country?)

For those who coach: Has the way that you train your athletes been in any way modified by information that you have gotten off the web?

For me the answer is yes. Sites like www.mariusbakken.com[/URL" target="_blank"> and www.coacheseducation.com[/URL" target="_blank"> not to mention kemibe's high school site (sorry, lost the link) have given me a number of good ideas, which I have incorporated into my training<HR>

i think it's pretty simple: more ppl are just interested in running than before.

------------------
_Tasha

who is this weirdo?[/URL" target="_blank">

Guest

8. Apr 27, 2003 12:16 PM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

but is this a good thing? The fact that a kid runs a 4:30 mile and wins but has to go home and feel bad that others are faster than him somewhere. I don't think that it really accomplishes anything but make everybody but a few feel good.

coacht017

153 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

9. Apr 27, 2003 1:19 PM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

The pursuit of excellence always leaves in its wake those with negative attitudes.

Guest

10. Dec 20, 2007 11:25 PM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

Yes people who are not able to run a 4:30 mile have attitude problems. The guy that gets second in a race always has a poor attitude.

Do you think that every kid on your team that is not realy fast has a bad attitude?

http://This message has been edited by termmy3 (edited Apr-27-2003).

http://This message has been edited by CoachB (edited Apr-27-2003).

CoachB008

777 posts since
Apr 27, 2000

11. Apr 27, 2003 5:39 PM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

quote:<HR>Originally posted by termmy3:
but is this a good thing? The fact that a kid runs a 4:30 mile and wins but has to go home and feel bad that others are faster than him somewhere. I don't think that it really accomplishes anything but make everybody but a few feel good. <HR>

If our hypothetical 4:30 miler is proud of his PR and determined to continue his quest for personal improvement in his running, then I think that there is nothing wrong with him seeing just how fast kids in the rest of the country are running.

If our hypothetical 4:30 miler is cocky and arrogant because he is a big fish in a little pond, then maybe his feelings do need to be hurt a little bit by seeing that there are people tremendously faster than him.

I make it a point to take my teams to at least one invitational per year where they will get totally stomped. We do this to "keep it real" as you might say. Last weekend, I had an athlete at a decent sized invite in San Jose. He ran a 4:48, which was a 9 second PR for him and he still was 21st place overall. The good comp made him run faster and he came away from the meet determined to continue improving because he saw what can happen if he really puts his mind to something

Stallion028

25 posts since
Apr 4, 2001

12. Apr 27, 2003 8:51 PM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

the better you get the harder you have to work, there is always some one out there running harder than you until you push and work hard enough to blow them away, you have to know your competition to know how to run your race, there is no harm in HS athletes seeing times from around the nation b/c all it does is push, i know im never going to be to be the best in the nation, state or even area, but knowing times gives me something to strive for and something to push for, im on my schools 4x8 and i think we could go to state which is something we kinda blew in CC season when we had a shot to win the state so know our 4x8 is made up of 4 of our top 5 varsity CC runners so its like the good old CC days and by being able to see the times other school are running my teammates and I know what we have to do to get the job done

Guest

13. Apr 28, 2003 6:01 PM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

I am glad there are coaches out there that train junior kids at school.
Yes, times have changed with internet. I think a lot of information concerning coaching kids is becomming available- coaching senior athletes is entirely different to coaching kids. All information from coaching courses and like is written for coaching top class athletes-e.g periodization- and is of little use. I coach kids for high jump and may only see my athletes once a week- they play other sports like soccer. I can't say to them "don't play this or that, concentrate on T and F". If I did, I would not have any kids to coach.
Comparing results ?
I had two 12-13 year old kids- one was a real freak and after coaching him for 2 years he acheived 1.83m at age 13. The other boy's wish was to beat the better kid (he jumped 1.63m same year). The "good" boy thought he knew everything about HJ and decided to learn TJ which I completely disagreed with. So, he went to a summer camp, did his TJ training and broke his foot. So goodbye freak ! The other boy who is now 21 is top jumper in OZ.
So coaching kids is an art- 80% personal relationship and 20% technique. With technique events, start young- 10 to 12 age with boys and don't expect too much- what they do will give you a BIG HIGH.

Ernie at OZ

------------------

Guest

14. Apr 28, 2003 6:55 PM

in response to: CoachB008

Re: Improvement in HS times

I am going to somewhat hihack this post.

I am just a novice runner but I am sure that the way info is being passed is improving peoples abilities.

I was thinking about some of the thinks/information we have access to today that we did not so readily 20 years ago

I did not know those Indian race drills were good FARTLEKS
\
just one example

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Apr 24, 2003 5:25 PM

Improvement in HS times

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