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38 Replies Last post: Feb 12, 2006 9:06 PM by MadXC 1 2 3 Previous Next

MadXC

112 posts since
Jun 4, 2000

May 13, 2004 4:41 PM

Max HR test

I did a max heart rate test. I did hill repeats. I found a very steep 300 meter hill. I warmed up with 2 miles at a 9 minute pace. I did some striders then I sprinted up the hill and jogged down. My first time up my heart rate went up to 184, then it went up to 187 then 186 and 186 again. I was pretty beat after the third. I was dead during and after the fourth so I called it quits and jogged back to my car.

I just started using a hr monitor this week. I used the formula 205 minus half my age for a max of 195 for the first two days of training. My first day I ran 4.7 miles in over 48 minutes. The next day I ran 7.38 miles in, I forget, An hour, 10 minutes and 20 seconds or something like that. The second day I ran farther, but my average mile time was quicker. The book I have says running in heat keeps your heart rate up at a slow pace for the first half hour, then after that it declines a little at the same pace which means you can run a faster pace at the same heart rate. I think that's what happend. It's been about 90 degrees today and the last two days.

I was hoping my max would be about 200 so I could run my easy runs faster. Adjusting from a 195 to 187 is going to slow me up some. Next week I'm going to try to run 1 X 800 then 6 X 400 to see if I get a similar reading. I'm very familiar with doing track workouts and blowing myself to bits on the track. I'm gonna try this heart rate stuff out for a month and see what happens. I'm running also running a 4 mile race a month from now. I'm going to run 85% for the first to miles. 95% for the third and then I'm going to try to purposely crash on the forth mile just to see what I can get my heart rate up too. I'll probably still win the race even if I crash.

Yoshiko007

421 posts since
Nov 16, 2003

1. May 13, 2004 4:58 PM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

I just did a similar max HR test. After a few miles warmup, I ran 400m good hill three times. My HR was 178, 180, then 182 after the 3rd time. I felt I coudln't run any more because of my tired legs, not so much of my heart. I was totally dead after this test. I couldn't run back home at all. Unfortunately, I don't think this test gave me the accurate max HR, but close enough, I am going to use 184 for now as my max HR to figure out training zones.

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ADAM1100XX

45 posts since
Jan 5, 2004

2. May 14, 2004 8:38 AM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

That is pretty interesting. I am beginning to think your max heart rate can vary from day-to-day depending mostly on fatigue. Maybe that is why some of the target ranges are so low, like the LSD run, or recovery run not to exceed 70%range. Who actually runs at 70% range? My recovery runs are at least 77% max heart rate if we are trying to be precise.

NoRacer083

43 posts since
Jan 14, 2001

3. May 14, 2004 1:10 PM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

quote:<HR>Originally posted by ADAM1100XX:
That is pretty interesting. I am beginning to think your max heart rate can vary from day-to-day depending mostly on fatigue. Maybe that is why some of the target ranges are so low, like the LSD run, or recovery run not to exceed 70%range. Who actually runs at 70% range? My recovery runs are at least 77% max heart rate if we are trying to be precise.<HR>

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dtoce

383 posts since
Nov 10, 2003

4. May 15, 2004 4:14 PM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

Adam-
Your 'true' max HR should not change from day to day, but will likely slowly decrease over time. On any given day and effort level, you may or may not achieve this feat of 'maxing out'. Likewise, effort and your own body's state of rest/hydration etc...will affect the ability to run at various paces and DOES influence lactate 'threshold', for instance. The true turnpoint or threshhold is really a range anyway.

Always take the highest, accurately measured number as your true max.

The recovery run is not for training, per se, but to allow more rapid 'recovery' from the previous training. Therefore, you should not overdo it and allow the muscles to move but not work too hard. The 70% number is in the ballpark for most people. I'd be a bit concerned about doing all the recovery at 77%, but some people are able to do more and recover quicker allowing for more rapid gains.

Good luck.

MadXC

112 posts since
Jun 4, 2000

5. May 15, 2004 5:04 PM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

I'm more confident with my max heart rate test now. Times are begining to come down. I ran my 4.7 mile course in yesterday in 42 minutes and 20 seconds which is 9 minutes a mile. Before I ran it in over 10 minutes a mile. Today I ran my 7.38 mile course in 1:09:15 which is 9:23 a mile. I think that's pretty good since I drank heavily from happy hour to 11pm yesterday. The pace definately feels ridiculously slow because I used to run it at about 7:30 to 8 min pace. Since my pace is improving I think the monitor is something I'm going to stick with through the summer. I'm the only guy on my college team using one so I'm going to have to talk to the coach in the fall. The guys on the team probably bang out 7 to 7:30 pace for recovery runs yet there are only a few guys on the team that have PR's better than mine. There's also some guys coming up from high school that supposedly have some good numbers. It looks kind of weird comparing my PR race pace to my recovery/aerobic pace for 5000 meters:
at 68-70% my pace is 9:00 a mile
at 90%

my pace is 5:11 a mile
That's 3:49 a minute difference, but I'm also in slightly worse shape now. I weighed about 115 when I ran my 5K PR now I weigh 124. I weighed 130 before I started training again. I'm on the classic seefood diet, I see food; I eat it.

MadXC

112 posts since
Jun 4, 2000

6. May 16, 2004 2:40 PM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

Today it was 80 something degrees and a little on the humid side, 7-10 degrees cooler than yesterday. Yesterday it was in the 90's. I ran 7.38 miles in 1:03:04, about 8:33 a mile. Temperature seems to make a pretty signifcant difference. I've noticed when I'm on shady parts of my run I have to increase my pace. It's also a strange feeling running up steep hills under 70%. It's interesting to see the difference.

MadXC

112 posts since
Jun 4, 2000

7. Jun 1, 2004 8:12 PM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

Figured I'd throw in a little update. I'm still using the heart rate monitor. On the same 7.8 mile loop at the same temperature my time has came down to 57-58 minutes which is anywhere from a mid 7 minute mile pace to low 8 minute mile pace.. Today I ran it in 58 minutes and five seconds. Yesterday I ran a little more than three miles in 25 minutes, I didn't measure the route, but my pace felt quick. On sunday I ran 12.07 miles in 1 hour 40 mintues and 5 seconds. I think this heart rate stuff is working for me. I also ran a 12 mile run last week and my legs were pretty sore from all of the road running I've been doin so I had to take a day off. I'm gonna try to hit the trails more often but there only good when they're semi-hard and dry... I'm trying to do my part of keeping trail errosion to a minimum. I can really feel the difference in my legs of running several days of road compared to several days of trail running. I'm going to run a race on saturday, I'm only gonna run just fast enough to win it just to see where my body is. I'm not gonna run all out until November for NCAA conference/regionals depending on how far the team goes.

MadXC

112 posts since
Jun 4, 2000

8. Jun 15, 2004 12:25 AM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

Definate 1 month improvement. Today I ran the same 7.38 run I ran on may 16th. Today was about 84 degrees and very humid. I ran 7.38 miles in 59:29 minutes, about 8:04 a mile. I've also recently ran as fast as 7:30 a mile under 70% max heart rate so there seems to be a strong trend towards improvement. It's cool to see actual aerobic fitness taking place. In ealier training years I've ran lots of easy runs at 6-7 min/mile pace, so in these previous years I haven't been training my slow twitch muscles as much as I should have and I unknowingly ignored important parts of training. Hopefully this fall I'll see some actual results with new 8K XC PR's. My main goal now is to go deep into the 15's in the 5K in spring track in 2005. In 2006 I want to qualify for the NCAA's. I think (I hope) improving my aerobic fitness over the next couple of years will greatly increase my chances of reaching my goals and potential. Also, I recently started a new job, when It's busy I have to lift and move a lot of weight around. When I first started my resting heart rate went for low 50's to up to 70 beats a minute, it's climbing back down now though. I'm hoping to be a beast in the fall and especially the spring. I wish I could skip fall XC alltogether besides the important races in November so I can continue to work on my aerobic fitness. I should probably not even run for school. I might be better off training alone for the next 4 years so I can progessively train myself into a totally different and faster runner, although that's not likely, I'm 95% commited to running for school.

Guest

9. Dec 20, 2007 11:36 PM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

quote:<HR>Originally posted by MadXC:
Definate 1 month improvement. Today I ran the same 7.38 run I ran on may 16th. Today was about 84 degrees and very humid. I ran 7.38 miles in 59:29 minutes, about 8:04 a mile. I've also recently ran as fast as 7:30 a mile under 70% max heart rate so there seems to be a strong trend towards improvement. It's cool to see actual aerobic fitness taking place. In ealier training years I've ran lots of easy runs at 6-7 min/mile pace, so in these previous years I haven't been training my slow twitch muscles as much as I should have and I unknowingly ignored important parts of training. Hopefully this fall I'll see some actual results with new 8K XC PR's. My main goal now is to go deep into the 15's in the 5K in spring track in 2005. In 2006 I want to qualify for the NCAA's. I think (I hope) improving my aerobic fitness over the next couple of years will greatly increase my chances of reaching my goals and potential. Also, I recently started a new job, when It's busy I have to lift and move a lot of weight around. When I first started my resting heart rate went for low 50's to up to 70 beats a minute, it's climbing back down now though. I'm hoping to be a beast in the fall and especially the spring. I wish I could skip fall XC alltogether besides the important races in November so I can continue to work on my aerobic fitness. I should probably not even run for school. I might be better off training alone for the next 4 years so I can progessively train myself into a totally different and faster runner, although that's not likely, I'm 95% commited to running for school.<HR>

That sounds a lot like me, I'm working with a HR monitor now, and I'm doing XC in the fall (but for highschool) and we have races starting in late august, but I want to peak for november so I don't want to run them "all out". How long have you been training with an HR monitor? It seems your paces have gone down really fast. I'm hoping mine do the same. Right now about 75% of my HR (predicted Max, I havent tested it) is ~9:30 pace. This is slower than what my teamates run who have similar or a little better PRs. They consistantly run in the 8's. But I'm hoping to get my pace at 70-75% down to the 8's before the season starts in early august, so your posts have been very encouraging to me. Keep up the updates, I would really like to know how your season turns out. Good luck!

edit: Also, what kind of runs have you been doing? Just easy runs at 70%? Or some tempos and stuff? Just wondering, thanks.

http://This message has been edited by XCgirl06 (edited Jun-20-2004).

MadXC

112 posts since
Jun 4, 2000

10. Jun 21, 2004 12:18 AM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

It's cool your using a hr montior, here's a really long post...

I've ran a 16:04 5K. I ran a 4 mile race a couple of weeks ago in 23:06, but I didn't run as hard as I could have. Although it seems to be getting faster, and because the hot weather and humidity and some hard nights of work before my morning runs, my 70% pace has been around 8 minutes a mile. Today I ran (first a mile, but I don't count the first mile for a few reason, I only count the first mile when I calculate my overall mileage) 7.38 miles in 57:51. One of the reasons I don't count the first mile is that it takes about a mile for my heart rate and pace to get right, I use the first mile to get the kinks out of my system and it's sometimes done below 70% and sometimes over. Anyway here's my last week of training:

All runs are done at around 70% of my max heart rate which is 148 beats a minute, but the average is almost always 145 beats a minute, it's better to be below 70% then over.

Monday: 8 miles easy (warmup then 7.38 miles)
Tuesday: 8 miles easy (warmup plust 7.38 miles)
Wednesday: 8 miles easy
Thursday: 8 miles am, 4.5 miles pm
Friday: 8 miles easy
Saturday: 8 miles easy
Sunday 8 miles easy, 7.38 miles done in 57:51, about 7:50 a mile.

Total mileage: 60.5 miles

This was my first 60 mile week in over a year. It was hard to fit in the mileage and work and life so it was a good week but it was a rough week. This next week I'm to try to run over 60 miles again, then the week after that I'll probably do about 40, then over 60, 70+ 70+ then back to 40 then up again. I'm going to try for 80 before college practice starts.

Don't be afraid to run slow, I was and still am, but doing that race a couple weeks ago let me know that my body can still move when I make it. I'm begining to realise that every percentage point above 70% my pace increases even more, so I'm not really that scared. I won't know actual numbers until I start doing workouts in mid to late August. I'm thinking about doing 1 or 2 workouts in July of 30 X 400m at 1:30 pace, slower than race pace but faster than training just to see what it does, I have other reasons for doing it but I typed a lot already.

Guest

11. Jun 21, 2004 8:57 PM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

Sounds like your doing great! I plan to get up around 60 or a little under by the end of summer. Right now I'm doing mostly easy runs too. I do have 1 tempo and 1-2 progression runs a week. The progression runs are basically easy ones but they just end a bit faster. I don't know my max hr though so I'm pacing everything like it would be around 200. So my easy runs are 140-150 bpm and tempos are around 170-180 bpm. (even so, they are still controlled and not that fast, so I guess my max HR is probably really a bit higher, but I'm just being conservative).

Johnnymac047

24 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

12. Jun 22, 2004 12:19 PM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

Just ditch the HR monitor and run by feel. Are you going to use the HR monitor every time you race? I don't see any point to it, I guess preventing overtraining, but still. Just throw on your watch and go for a run, and if it feels too hard slow down, or not hard enough speed up. I never could stand the HR monitor...always seemed like I was putting limitations on myself. I tried running with it for a while and it seemed like that **** strap ruled my runs, I couldn't run what I wanted to without it beeping at me. It seems like you're running too slow for your PR's. Anybody agree with me?

MadXC

112 posts since
Jun 4, 2000

13. Jun 22, 2004 1:44 PM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

I used to run without a heart rate monitor. I'd run by feel. Running just 50 mpw hurt. Now I just ran 60 with a lot less pain. The point of aerobic base training is to train your aerobic fitness level and slow twitch muscles. If you don't run slow enough you don't maximize your aerobic training. I think this heart rate stuff is really helping me out. This fall will be tell all if I run 8K pr's... or not. But I think I'm heading up for a very good season. I feel really. strong these days.

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MadXC

112 posts since
Jun 4, 2000

14. Jun 24, 2004 11:55 PM

in response to: MadXC

Re: Max HR test

I just ran 16 miles today.
Training so far this week:
Monday: 8 miles am
Tuesday: 8 miles am
Wednesday: 6 miles am 3 miles pm
Thursday: 8 miles am 8 miles pm
16 miles is the most I've ever run in a single day. If it weren't for getting a job and working and stuff I'd possibly be in the 80's per week now. I'll probably run 65-70 this week.

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May 13, 2004 4:41 PM

Max HR test

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