LL 11U game today.
Team 1 wins game 1 to force game 2.
Catcher on winning team in game 1 catches whole game.
Catcher enters game 2 to pitch in 3rd inning. Manager of team 2 asks umpires for clarification. Umps go to TD and he says ok........does not go to Williamsport. Team 2 manager is playing game under protest.
Is this correct?
if this is LL tournament and not a special games tournament then I would think that the mgr should not allow game to continue until the TD runs it up the chain to get a verdict, protests need to be decided before any play resumes
Is what correct?
Regular season or tournament, the catcher is not allowed to pitch in the second game.
If this is a state tournament, the game is held up until the protest is settled.
The tournament director ought to be aware of the rule change in March.
If it is in fact a Little League tournament,the manager would be suspended for the next 2 games. Additional penalties can be (and usually are) imposed, including forfeit of the game.
At least for me, the terms LL & 11U don't go together.
11U is generally associated with youth ball programs other than LL.
Assuming this was a "LL Tournament Game" and the manager "Protested" and the Umpire went to the TD and the TD said it was OK the manage has two choice, agree or tell the TD to call the Region/Williamsport.
If the manager did not agree with the TD he should have "stoped playing" until the Region/Williamsport is called. Once he started playing when the TD said it was OK he "lost" his Protest.
Maybe next time he'll read the document before he signs them - that is, right above where he signed the Affidavit is says:
"I may lodge a protest in accordance with the Tournament Rules and Guidelines, and that my team is not required to continue playing until such protest has been resolved, (A) to my satisfaction, or, (B) by the Tournament Committee in Williamsport, the decision of which shall be final and binding"
So, I guess once he continued to play the Protest was resolved "to his satisfaction" !!!
Actually he isn't playing the game under protest. Once he chose to accept the TD's ruling and not pursue the matter further, the protest was considered to be resolved under LL rules. He cannot go back and revisit the situation later. All protests must be resolved before the next Pitch or Play during LL tournaments. Although you can MAKE an illegible player protest at any time, once you make it, it needs to be resolved before play continues.
Although you can MAKE an illegible player protest at any time, once you make it, it needs to be resolved before play continues.
That's not necessarily what the tournament protest rule says. In the case of an ineligible pitcher, the manager can protest the situation until the umpires leave the field at the end of the game when there is no further play to continue.
And I don't think he accepted the TD's ruling. The OP said the manager was playing the game under protest; he didn't say the manager accepted the TD's decision. That's a subtle difference.
Yes, the manager should have known better and not allow the game to continue. But the TD should have known better as well. He doesn't have a choice to resolve the protest. Unlike how a protest for a rule interpretation is handled (where paragraph A.4. in the Protest section gives the TD the opportunity to render a decision), the TD doesn't have the option of making a ruling and directing that the game go on. Per B.3. in the Protest section, the TD must immediately call to eventually get a decision from Williamsport.
So I think the protest is still valid. The manager lodged it well before the umpires left the field, and by rule the TD is obligated to get a decision from Williamsport. He cannot say, "Pitcher is eligible, play on." The TD can still make the required phone call well after the game is over.
I would recommend that the manager call the DA, inform him/her of the situation, and have someone call LL HQ for a decision.
Mark_SD wrote...."Although you can MAKE an illegible (sic) player protest at any time, once you make it, it needs to be resolved before play continues."
When it comes to protesting an INELIGIBLE PLAYER-[found to be ineligible AFTER a game is over]-- a protest can still be filed well after the game ends and eveyone has gone home; BUT--before either team involved begins another game.
Also---at the division level cited by the OP, a second game, same team, same day, is not allowed unless pre-approved by Regional Hdqtrs. Or was it approved by Regional?
I don't have my rulebook with me, but as I recall, LL added words last year (or the year before) that essentially said that if you lodged a protest but continued to play, tough luck.
As for the fact that a protest of an ineligible player/pitcher can be made at any time including after the game, it STILL needs to be resolved before the next pitch or play (even if that play is the beginning of the next game).
I can't be positive, but I think the manager is out of luck here.
I don't know, Frank.
I thought 10-11's were playing at the Major level and can play one double header per week.
But if they are Minor level, you are correct. No double headers without approval.
"Double header" here means a team scheduled for two games in one day, not necessarily against the same opponent.
The OP indicated W-port tournament play is involved in his post.
T-play, Majors and below doubleheaders, a no-no unless pre-approved by Regional Director.
See 2010 Rulebook... Page T-9...under "SCHEDULES."
From the OP, it sounds like this was a championship game followed immediately by the "If" game should the team with one loss beat the undefeated team. During district play, we schedule the "If" game the next day. But when weather created havoc with our schedules, we've had to play both games on the same day. I'm guessing our DA would get the OK from Region before playing them.