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1874 Views 12 Replies Latest reply: Nov 15, 2010 11:29 AM by Frank_NL RSS
44Dodgers Pro 175 posts since
May 11, 2009
Currently Being Moderated

Oct 25, 2010 9:39 PM

Hidden Ball Trick

What rule number governs when a Pitcher approaching the mound must have the ball in play in his glove?

 

Thanks in advance.

  • bluezebra Pro 84 posts since
    May 26, 2000
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Oct 25, 2010 11:00 PM (in response to 44Dodgers)
    Re: Hidden Ball Trick

    There is none as far as "approaching the mound" is concerned. If the ball is live, and he strides the pitcher's plate without the ball, it's a balk. If the ball is dead, nothing can happen.

     

    Bob

  • cookie__22 Amateur 18 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Oct 26, 2010 1:29 AM (in response to bluezebra)
    Re: Hidden Ball Trick

    If it's a game played under high school rules (FED), then F1 should not be without the ball and within 5 feet of the rubber during the hidden ball trick (of course, while the ball is live).

    Fed 6-2-5

  • HugoTafurst Legend 515 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Oct 26, 2010 5:04 AM (in response to cookie__22)
    Re: Hidden Ball Trick

    MLB Official Rules:   8.05

     

    The rule is different for different rules organizations NCAA, NFHS

    MLB Official Rules





    oops

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Oct 26, 2010 7:40 AM (in response to DawgDays)
    Re: Hidden Ball Trick

    Did you mean straddle?

     

     

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Oct 26, 2010 7:54 AM (in response to HugoTafurst)
    Re: Hidden Ball Trick

    OBR - can't be on or astride the rubber. 

     

    FED:  can't be within about 5 feet of the rubber

     

    NCAA: can't be on the dirt.

  • DawgDays Pro 156 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Oct 26, 2010 9:02 AM (in response to Rich_Ives)
    Re: Hidden Ball Trick

    One more thing you need to be aware of:

     

    If time was called prior to the hidden ball trick, none of these rules apply.  The ball cannot be put into play if F1 doesn't have the ball.  If the runner is tagged, there is no out.  There is no balk.  It's a big nothing.  I like to say it this way, "It is IMPOSSIBLE to successfully execute the hidden ball trick if time has been called."

  • bluezebra Pro 84 posts since
    May 26, 2000
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Oct 26, 2010 11:35 AM (in response to Rich_Ives)
    Re: Hidden Ball Trick

    "Did you mean straddle?"

     

    Thank you. It was late, and my vocabulary has been going down hill faster than my health.

     

    Bob

     

     

     

     

  • TheMouth__1 Legend 917 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Oct 26, 2010 7:29 PM (in response to bluezebra)
    Re: Hidden Ball Trick

    I think a few more variation on this rule would be of benefit to everyone ??????   TM

  • Jim__767 Expert 39 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Oct 26, 2010 7:56 PM (in response to TheMouth__1)
    Re: Hidden Ball Trick

    "If time was called prior to the hidden ball trick, none of these rules apply. The ball cannot be put into play if F1 doesn't have the ball. If the runner is tagged, there is no out. There is no balk. It's a big nothing. I like to say it this way, "It is IMPOSSIBLE to successfully execute the hidden ball trick if time has been called."

     

     

    1. "IMPOSSIBLE to successfully execute the hidden ball trick if time has been called" -   Not impossible if you have untrained umpires as the OP might suggest. Possibility 2% off the top of my head.

     

    2. "The ball cannot be put into play" -

       It has been and probably will be put into play again 5% of the time (WAG).

     

    3. "There is no balk" - I agree but the last time this happened in my neck of the woods the ball was put in play erroneously and after the pitcher took the rubber and the PU realized that he didn't have the ball, he (PU) balked him. No complaints from anyone. I stopped canvassing and explaining the error of their ways to my umpire group after getting numerous "if he tricked me I'll balk him comments."

     

    4. I don't call balks when the ball is dead but I can't argue with those that do. It's a grey area and only comes into play when the rarely seen hidden ball trick is improperly attempted.

     

     

  • Jim__767 Expert 39 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Oct 26, 2010 8:04 PM (in response to Frank_B)
    Re: Hidden Ball Trick

    As an aside to this OP, F1 violates the letter of the rule in all 3 codes, excepting OBR in most cases, when he pitches and stands awaiting the catcher's return throw. This is not a violation of the rule.

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Oct 27, 2010 6:28 AM (in response to Jim__767)
    Re: Hidden Ball Trick

    Bob:

     

    You ARE slipping. Welcome to the club.

    Check your gun at the door.

     

    8.O5(i) reads "astride" not "straddle."

    Rich (himself) uses "astride" in a later post below.

     

    But either word basically meaning the same.

    So your vocabulary is intact with your use of the word "astride." supported by the wording in 8.05(i)

     

    Frank!

  • Frank_NL Amateur 25 posts since
    Feb 25, 2002
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Nov 15, 2010 11:29 AM (in response to Frank_B)
    Re: Hidden Ball Trick

    Who's slipping?

    In his post of Oct 25, 2010 11:00 PM, Bluezebra used "strides".


    Frank¡

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