Skip navigation
Community: Exchange advice in the forums and read running commentary Resources: Personal running log, calculators, links and other tools for runners News: Running news from around the world Training: Articles and advice about fitness, race training and injury prevention Races/Results: Find upcoming races and past results Home: The Cool Running homepage
Cool Running homepage  Search Cool Running Community

2743 Views 12 Replies Latest reply: Nov 21, 2010 7:22 PM by thedevotedrunner
Podzol Expert 55 posts since
Oct 19, 2010
Currently Being Moderated

Nov 18, 2010 7:58 AM

Heart rate questions

Hello, I am wondering if my heartrate is jumping too high when I jog/run.

 

I'm 43 female and have a BMI of about 24. I recently finished C25K and am working on getting more comfortable with the 5K. I run on a moderately hilly trail. Usually just shy of 33 minutes for the 5k. I am not gasping for breath or struggling, just plodding along. I recover very quickly from the runs.

 

My resting pulse when I wake up is 52 bmp. (Averaged over several measurements on different days. They were all very close to 52bmp so I think my measurement is accurate.) Using different online MHR calculators, I calculated my maximum heart rate and it worked out to 179.

 

Using my Garmin Forerunner and heart monitor, my average heart rate during my 5k is >85% of the maximum!?!  or 156 bmp. It just doesn't seem that I am running that hard. Why would my heart rate go so high?

 

Thanks for any ideas.

  • Surfing_Vol Legend 848 posts since
    Nov 6, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Nov 18, 2010 8:05 AM (in response to Podzol)
    Re: Heart rate questions

    You can search this topic on other threads on the site, but the summary of the discussion is that runners' maximum heart rates do not drop a beat per year, which is the standard used to "guesstimate" max HR.

     

    I'm older than you, and routinely go over 150 bpm in training runs and over 170 bpm during 5k races and, as recently as last weekend, over the last couple of miles of a 10 mile race.

     

    Heart rate training has a place, but I've quit placing too much emphasis on it except to try to stay slower on "slow run" training days.





    Presentation1.jpg

    Surfing Vol

    "Victory through attrition!"

    Charleston Half-Marathon 1/15/2011 -- 1:52:03

    The Scream! Half-Marathon 7/16/2011 -- 1:56:00

  • BOSNPM We're Not Worthy 2,482 posts since
    Nov 20, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Nov 18, 2010 9:20 AM (in response to Surfing_Vol)
    Re: Heart rate questions

    I am a 50 year old man, resting HR can be in the low to mid 40's, I can get my max HR on a 5K way up in the 180's toward the end.  If you HR is not spiking and it's comes down it is not a big deal for shorter races like a 5K.  For longer races you will pay dearly if you run at or above 80% for extended amounts of time.  

  • BOSNPM We're Not Worthy 2,482 posts since
    Nov 20, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Nov 18, 2010 9:49 AM (in response to Podzol)
    Re: Heart rate questions

    If you have insurance with family history get a stress test done just to make sure, below is some numbers that I like to use during training/racing:

     

    HR 65-70%:  Is for easy running training and recovery days.

     

    HR 70-75%: Gives you the max aerobic training benefit (fat burning) moderate base training.

     

    HR 75-80%: Mild tempo training helps build your muscular/sheletal foundation for the rigors of racing.

     

    HR 85%: Fast tempo running/not quite race pace, off season or inplace of  a race.

     

    HR85-95%: Race effort and range during 5-10Ks, for a fast 10K you will run 90-95% for best effort.

     

    V/R Phillip

  • bkgnr Rookie 1 posts since
    Jul 31, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Nov 18, 2010 6:50 PM (in response to Podzol)
    Re: Heart rate questions

    Just to give you a bit more info - I'm a 31 yo male but have always had a weird heart rate.  I cruise on my long runs in the mid 180s - to be honest, I don't think I could keep it below 180 if I wanted to.  I consider 190 to be on the higher end of my range, and can easily get over 200 or 205 at the end of a run in heat (209 is the my PR )  And during all of this I feel fine and don't feel my heart going at all.  I had a stress test done a few years back along with 24 hour monitors twice in my life and they all found nothing.  My blood pressure tends to be on the lower side, so in the end, I'm not too concerned.  I've done reading, talked to some people about it and just can't find anything yet that gives me major pause.  I keep an eye on it just to make sure, but I have to say it at least very predictably, no spikes, and drops after stopping - like most people, but at a higher level.  Some of us are just like that, I guess.

  • thedevotedrunner Legend 439 posts since
    Jul 7, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Nov 18, 2010 11:37 PM (in response to Podzol)
    Re: Heart rate questions

    I agree with Vol, to some extent.  For me heart rate training is the only way to go.

     

    I agree that your max HR is probably off.  No magic formula can determine your max HR.  Your TRUE Max HR is a personal # unique to you and determined by genetics.  Now, the number that people usually refer to as "Max HR" DOES fluctuate based on fitness and level of activity.  Vol is right that  for runners, this number does not drop 1 beat each year like it does for inactive people.

     

    I would try a max HR test (google it) and see what you get, then adjust your HR zones to that number.





    Running the straight and narrow,

    St3ven

    "Run because you love it. If you don't, learn to love it. Running will bring things into your life that you could never imagine." - Scott Jurek, Star of "Born To Run"

    The Surgeon General has determined it is OK to smoke your opponent!

    Flollow me on twitter

  • Surfing_Vol Legend 848 posts since
    Nov 6, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Nov 19, 2010 5:39 AM (in response to thedevotedrunner)
    Re: Heart rate questions

    thedevotedrunner wrote:

     

    I agree with Vol, to some extent.  For me heart rate training is the only way to go.

     

    I agree that your max HR is probably off.  No magic formula can determine your max HR.  Your TRUE Max HR is a personal # unique to you and determined by genetics.  Now, the number that people usually refer to as "Max HR" DOES fluctuate based on fitness and level of activity.  Vol is right that  for runners, this number does not drop 1 beat each year like it does for inactive people.

     

    I would try a max HR test (google it) and see what you get, then adjust your HR zones to that number.

    How are you monitoring your HR and your runs?  How are you determining your HR training zones?  I've found most HR training plans to be incredibly frustrating because my HR invariably goes above the recommended zone.  For me, at least, my lower zones go way above the "calculated HR" for that zone, and then compress.

     

    For instance, my "calculated max HR" for moderate aerobic activity is in a no-man's-land where a slow jog gets the HR too high but a walk doesn't get my HR high enough.  And this is after I have (1) manually adjusted my max HR way up and (2) tweaked the heck out of the HR zones.  What the heck?

     

    I've also had troubles with HR training when it is hot outside.  Because I'm a larger runner, my heart has to beat faster just to keep my core temperature down.

     

    I still run with HR monitor on, but I don't pay much attention to the data.  Any help would be appreciated.

     

    SV





    Presentation1.jpg

    Surfing Vol

    "Victory through attrition!"

    Charleston Half-Marathon 1/15/2011 -- 1:52:03

    The Scream! Half-Marathon 7/16/2011 -- 1:56:00

  • coolbikermom Legend 418 posts since
    Jan 25, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Nov 19, 2010 7:19 AM (in response to Surfing_Vol)
    Re: Heart rate questions

    I'm with Surfing_Vol. I got caught up with the numbers I was getting from my heart rate monitor and that's been probably the most frustrating thing to me since I've been running this past year. I kept thinking as I became more fit, my heart rate should have been dropping more and it wasn't. I, too, am a bigger runner (quarter horse vs thoroughbred) and especially in the heat my heart pumps faster from the get go. The last several runs I have left my HR monitor off because I've become pretty consistent with my effort. Uphill it goes higher than is "recommended", or when I'm inside running on the treadmill it's higher. My not wearing it is my way of learning to ignore what it's saying. Eventually I'll put it back on for the data. Hopefully it'll help me see a trend if I'm doing too much and not resting enough.

     

    As always YMMV (your mileage may vary).





    C25k dropout

    Rock the Parkway 5k 3/27/10  37:40.6

    Mother's Day 5k  5/9/10  33:19

    Walk/Run for Isaiah 9/18/10 4.4k 37:26

    Harvest Moon 10k 10/23/10  1:08.50

    Great Santa 5k 12/5/10 33:22

    Carlsbad half marathon 1/23/11

    "Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better." ~Albert Einstein

  • lenzlaw Community Moderator 10,422 posts since
    Jan 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Nov 19, 2010 7:48 AM (in response to Surfing_Vol)
    Re: Heart rate questions

    The key to the whole thing is knowing your maximum and resting heart rates (MHR and RHR).  Then use the Karvonen formula to calculate zones.

     

    Here's one article that gives several methods that will at least get you close to your MHR.

    http://www.howtobefit.com/determine-maximum-heart-rate.htm

     

    RHR is found before you get out of bed in the morning.  Wear a watch and take your pulse, or wear your HRM to bed.

     

    Karvonen formula is % of (MHR minus RHR) plus RHR.

    So for me MHR=188, RHR=46 (BTW, I'm 62 yo).

    80% is .8x(188-46) + 46  which is .8 x 142 + 46  so 113.6 + 46 = 159.6.  Call it 160.

     

    Some other articles with general guidelines.

    http://www.marathonguide.com/training/articles/HeartMonitorTraining.cfm

    http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-267--1039-0,00.html

     

    Len

     

    MHR tends to decrease 1 beat per year in sedentary individuals, not in runners.

    Increasing heart rate in warm weather, up hills, as you get dehydrated, etc, is known (by one author at least) as "cardiac creep", and is to be expected.





    Len

  • thedevotedrunner Legend 439 posts since
    Jul 7, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Nov 21, 2010 7:22 PM (in response to Surfing_Vol)
    Re: Heart rate questions

    Surfing_vol- For the most part, it sounds like I determine my HR zones the same way Lenzlaw does in the previous post.

     

    First, Max HR is very individual.  you can't go by the standardized formulas.  Yoy have to perform a max HR test to determine yours.  You can google it.

     

    HR zones come in two varieties.  The first is in % of toal HR.  In other words, if your max HR is 188, then zone 1 would start at 1 BPM. Zone 5 (or 10 if you are on a 10 zone scale) ends at your max HR.

     

    The second is calculated on HR reserve.  That is you take your Max HR and subtract your resting HR. The zones are determined on this reserve.  So if your Resting HR is 60, then zone 1 would start at 60 BPM.

    Hope this makes sense.

     

    The second method is a little easier for running.  The problem with the first is that the HR zones cover too much ground.  One HR zone can contain a variance of 20 beats per minute.  For running, the second method is better.

     

    As far as how I monitor my HR?? I am old school at the present time.  I stop every couple of miles and take my pulse.  Don't have the cash for a Garmin 305 yet.  After doing this for several months, I can tell what zone I am in by perceived effort and how hard I am breathing.

     

    Looking forward to being able to get the 305 so I can record my HR.





    Running the straight and narrow,

    St3ven

    "Run because you love it. If you don't, learn to love it. Running will bring things into your life that you could never imagine." - Scott Jurek, Star of "Born To Run"

    The Surgeon General has determined it is OK to smoke your opponent!

    Flollow me on twitter

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...