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3845 Views 12 Replies Latest reply: Dec 14, 2010 5:59 PM by JasonFitz1 RSS
emiles1234 Amateur 8 posts since
Dec 5, 2010
Currently Being Moderated

Dec 5, 2010 9:55 AM

I need a lower time

I am a freshman in high school but i ran in the 5k varsity races. I thought i did good. My best time was 23:32. But I really want to get around 21 minutes because I think it will make me more part of the team. Any tips for getting a much lower time?

  • ZenPacer42 Rookie 4 posts since
    Dec 5, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Dec 5, 2010 10:09 PM (in response to emiles1234)
    Re: I need a lower time

    5k races are mostly aerobic events. So between now and the start of next race season, focus on building your aerobic engine. Do nothing but easy aerobic running. Here's a good page by the great triathlete Mark Allen that will tell you how to do it safely and surely:

     

    http://www.markallenonline.com/heartrate.asp

     

    http://www.markallenonline.com/Base.asp

     

    Make sure you stagger your hard days (longer time on feet) with low volume of time or rest days in between.For example:

     

    M- 1 -1.5 hours (hard)

    T- 45 minutes (easy)

    W-1- 1.5 hours  (hard)

    T--off  (easy)

    F--1.5 to 2 hours  (hard)

    S--off  (easy)

    S--45 minutes  (easy)

     

    You get the picture. Something like that.

     

    Run by time, not distance. Your body only knows time. An elite runner can run 20 miles at an easy pace in 2 hours, while an amateur might only be able to run 13 in two hours at the same relative easy effort. You don't need to run more time than an elite.

     

    If you follow Allen's advice, you will find that you will be able to run longer and longer, and finish the run feeling great. When race season comes, I'm sure your coach will give you all the speedwork you need, but you will be SO ready for it. You will be an aerobic machine! Whatever speed you have, you will be able to hold for longer than you ever imagined because your endurance will be amazing.

     

    If you find you don't vibe on his advice ot the heart rate monitor, then just run easy, making sure you can recite or sing  a song easily as you run. It's not as accurate as the heart rate monitor, but if you're honest about how easy you can recite the song, then you will be pretty much okay. Doing this will build your base and increase the probability of staying injury free while you do. Building volume can be hazardous ground for many as they run their training miles at too high an effort. Easy makes you faster.

     

    Don't take my word on any of this. Go out and research aerobic base training. Keywords like Lydiard, periodization, Mark Allen, Dr. Phil Maffetone, MIke Pigg, aerobic system, base training, etc.

  • Dog-lover Legend 373 posts since
    Mar 5, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Dec 6, 2010 8:30 AM (in response to emiles1234)
    Re: I need a lower time

    Zenpacers advice is right on.  I try to use the a simple rule that I've read in my training.  "Run fast to run long and run long to run fast". This basic philosophy is built into most training plans.  I assume that your CC coach had you do training that was very 5k specific, stick to that plan as you train throughout the year just keep it a bit less intense.  Easy long runs, repeats and tempo runs.  Good luck!

     

    Pete





    Quote from Bob Moawad  " You can't make footprints in the sands of time if you are sitting on your butt. And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time"

    2008 - Grandma's marathon - 4:51            2011 - Get in Gear 1/2 marathon - 1:46

    2009 - Get in Gear 1/2 marathon - 1:49    2011 - Green Bay marathon - 3:51

    2009 - Grandma's marathon - 4:13            2011 - Grandma's marathon - 3:45

    2009 - Twin Cities marathon - 4:02           2011 - Minneapolis Pride 5k - 21:31

    2010 - Grandma's marathon - 3:58 ya hoo!

    2010 - Twin Cities marathhon - 3:55

  • BOSNPM We're Not Worthy 2,482 posts since
    Nov 20, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Dec 6, 2010 10:41 AM (in response to Dog-lover)
    Re: I need a lower time

    Summer is when the Cross Country races are won and lost!!!!!!!!  I tend to think you need both long slow/medium pace work and some hard interval/tempo work.

  • Surfing_Vol Legend 848 posts since
    Nov 6, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Dec 6, 2010 10:11 AM (in response to emiles1234)
    Re: I need a lower time

    I assume you're running c/c.  As a former 16:20 runner at your distance, I'm going to disagree with the other advice that you're received.

     

    While I agree that long runs are good, make your long runs easy.  That will build up you endurance without tearing down your body.  To run fast, you need to train fast -- 440 repeats (or 400 m repeats, if your track is metric) and 880/800 repeats, once a week, are what did it for me.  Fast training coupled with endurance will allow you to run hard longer, which will drop your time below 23:32.

     

    So, if you want to run sub-21, you should run your 440/400 repeats no slower than 1:30.  Focus on your foot turnover, overall form and consistency (running the last repeat as fast as you ran the first one) during the repeat sessions.

     

    Also, are you running on technical / hilly c/c courses?  If so, you should include hill work in your training.





    Presentation1.jpg

    Surfing Vol

    "Victory through attrition!"

    Charleston Half-Marathon 1/15/2011 -- 1:52:03

    The Scream! Half-Marathon 7/16/2011 -- 1:56:00

  • Vin Camacho Pro 92 posts since
    Sep 4, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Dec 6, 2010 11:01 AM (in response to Surfing_Vol)
    Re: I need a lower time

    I agree with Surfing Vol. Endurance and speed are two different things and need to be approached differently. Yes, if you run longer distances, you will be able to do the shorter ones faster. However, the best way to see significant results while keeping your chances for injury low  is to "train hard and fast". What I mean is, tempo runs and track work are really important to getting faster. While endurance is something we all should always be working on, the only way you're going to get faster is to "run faster". Shorter more intense workouts are the best way to do this for any level of running. I run distances from 1/2 marathon to 60K. I use speed workouts, like pace runs, tempo runs and hill repeats to get faster, and I use my long runs (1 or 2 a week depending what I am training for) to build my endurance.





    "You don't stop running because you get old, you get old becasue you stop running"

    Take care, Train hard and Train smart. Sincerely, Vincent

  • C Compson Rookie 1 posts since
    Nov 15, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Dec 9, 2010 2:27 PM (in response to emiles1234)
    Re: I need a lower time

    As a XC coach, I would first recommend you share your goals with your coach and develop a training plan together. That being said, the advice posted here is spot-on concerning the necessity to build your aerobic base. There is no pretty or quick way to it. You just need to run, run, run. During this base-building try not to focus on speed/intensity. While your runs shouldn't be jogs in the park, they should not be killers either. If you can't stand the monotony of long, steady running, focus on changing the intensity with the terrain rather than your feet. Plot out runs that frequently visit hills, trails, and sand to add another stimulus to the activity. I would also encourage you to plan your runs based on minutes rather than miles, this will help you avoid the pitfall of racing yourself from day to day. Lastly, build slowly. You only get faster if you give your body enough time to adapt to each level of stress as you progress. If you move too quickly, you never gain the adaptive benefits of your training. Remember above all else, this is supposed to be fun! Smile when you're running and don't be afraid to stop for a moment to take in the scenery.....GOOD LUCK!

  • Surfing_Vol Legend 848 posts since
    Nov 6, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Dec 11, 2010 12:41 PM (in response to emiles1234)
    Re: I need a lower time

    Do I know about running in sand?  Do bears go in the woods?

     

    I used to run 6 days a week on the sand -- 5 days a week I added 2 miles of beach running to my roadwork, and the 6th day was a long trail run on sand.  I can tell you about how to run on a beach, what the additional stresses on your body are, how long it takes to get stronger so that beach running isn't significantly slower than other running,  What do you want to know?

     

    And with respect to your training routine of running a .4 mile lap around the block, you've got to stop that -- you putting the same stresses on your body and mind over and over.  The first -- same stresses on your body -- leads to staleness and possibly injury (although you're young).  The second keeps you from being race ready.

     

    What is keeping you from running other than around the block?





    Presentation1.jpg

    Surfing Vol

    "Victory through attrition!"

    Charleston Half-Marathon 1/15/2011 -- 1:52:03

    The Scream! Half-Marathon 7/16/2011 -- 1:56:00

  • Surfing_Vol Legend 848 posts since
    Nov 6, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Dec 12, 2010 9:53 AM (in response to emiles1234)
    Re: I need a lower time

    Have you ever examined your running footsteps in the sand?  If so, you'll remember how deep your toes sink in to the sand, especially in comparison to the heel.  You might also remember "spray" from sand being kicked forward by the toes as the leave the sand.  Your goal, then, is to maximize the motion that works in the forward propulsion and minimize drag.

     

    Focus on your kick off and foot turnover, which will minimize heel strike, which slows you down.  A good way to do this is to shorten your stride and to picture your running form as being closer to sprinting, but at a lower intensity.  You should really feel the work from your hips down when running in sand.  (You'll also feel your calves as you are really working your toes.)  You'll want to lift your knees, too, to avoid "plowing" the sand as you drag your foot through it.

     

    If you access to safe sand, I strongly suggest running barefoot in it.  That will strengthen your feet and calves.

     

    Also, hillwork is a good simulation of running in sand, espcially if you focus on "bounding" up the hill in your training.

     

    Tactically, you'll want to run on "firmer" rather than softer sand.  Sand that has been run through is softer than "fresh" sand, so the quick runners are going to be able to go faster.  In addition, sand on the side of the main trail may be firmer and faster.





    Presentation1.jpg

    Surfing Vol

    "Victory through attrition!"

    Charleston Half-Marathon 1/15/2011 -- 1:52:03

    The Scream! Half-Marathon 7/16/2011 -- 1:56:00

  • ColoCorredor Pro 97 posts since
    Dec 14, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Jan 7, 2014 7:26 AM (in response to emiles1234)
    Re: I need a lower time

    There are some great speed workouts that will help lower your time.  Fartlek runs are probably one of the most common speed workouts for runners. The word “Fartlek” is actually Swedish, and translates as “speed play”.

    The term has long been used by athletes to describe the type of training where you push the body’s limits for a short time followed by a cool down period. I also like running hills to increase my speed.  Hill workouts definitely allow you to get the most bang for your exercise buck. Incorporating hills into a speed workout routine will improve your race time, build lots of leg strength, and improve your flexibility.  Also, lunges, tempo runs and climbing stairs will help.  Here's a bit more detail... http://www.runpals.com/speed-workouts.html.





    Believe you can do it. Think no other way but “Yes you can.”
    The human body is capable of considerably more physical endurance than most of us realize!!
  • JasonFitz1 Legend 572 posts since
    Jun 19, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Dec 14, 2010 5:59 PM (in response to emiles1234)
    Re: I need a lower time

    To be honest, I would forget about the specific advice you received here. You're a freshman in high school and just need to be patient. Do what your coach says (especially the "little things" like core, rest, and strength work), be patient, and stay consistent.

     

    I improved over four minutes from my freshman year to senior year. Then another minute over the next 2 years in college. You have time on your side!

     

    Cheers,

    - Fitz.





    Strength Running

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