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995683 Views 4,714 Replies Latest reply: Dec 18, 2013 5:15 PM by timbrown7573 Go to original post 1 ... 133 134 135 136 137 ... 315 Previous Next
  • PaintingLady Legend 906 posts since
    Dec 12, 2009

    Tks Jack & Kirk on info re shoes. Neither Fleet Feet, Runner's Mkt nor New Balance Store in Knoxville carry NB 801. They don't stock the NB RT790 which must be  comparable shoe but one made for trails. Some of the Chi runners in the Asheville area use it.

    My feet are a bit funky (whose isn't?! ) and haven't had luck buying shoes without trying them on. Someone here or on the Penguin thread mentioned TJ Max stores often had running shoes and gear. I'll check them out.

    The above mentioned stores don't have a clue as to what Chi Running is. I mention it and they look at me like, what are you smokin lady?!  One fella told me that they don't worry about "form" as it will come w/ more running. I suppose that is true, and it appears it is "old school" philosophy, but from one who has experienced injury, and is past middle age, I want to run, and I want to run injury free. So, hence, it makes sence to run w/ efficient and good form.

     

    I walked and did yoga today to rest and prepare for my "long" run tomorrow. We are shooting for 5 miles. If I can learn to pace myself  & slow down, I should be able to make it. Otherwise, I'll galloway it and throw in some walk breaks and get that 5 miles.

     

    Good luck to anyone who might be racing this weekend. I don't recall anyone mentioning it, but w/ pretty weather, some might just decide to show up at a race.

    May the wind be at your back!

    Marie





    Marie from Tennessee

    Training for Disney 2013 Goofy Challenge.....Yes, I'm certifiably CRAZY!

    61 year olds must be out of their minds to run a half marathon followed by a full the next day!

    Disney Half Marathon 1/7/2012 2:37:59

    Bear Hunt 5K 9/24/11 28:28 pb

    Trojan Trek Trail 5K 8/6/11 31:45

    Expo 10K 5/28/11 1:01:28,

    Expo 10K 5/26/12 1:05:39

    Eastman 10K 9/8/2012 1:01:11 pb

    "Let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us." Hebrews 12:1


  • KIRK_T Legend 279 posts since
    Jun 25, 2010

    Marie,

     

    I have not found them in stores just direct from New Balance.

    Both my daughter & I ordered the size we usually wear and they fit good.

     

    Perhaps your local store can get a pair in for you to try?

     

    Kirk





    Kirk: Started running again at 50.

    2010: 4-5K 1-3.5 mile 2-Half Marathon

    2011: 3-5K 1-3.5 mile 1-8K 1-10 mile 16-Half Marathon 1-Marathon


    Rock 'n' Roll Arizona Marathon 01/15/2012 3:28:33 PR & BQ

    F^3 Lake Half Marathon 01/28/2012 1:48:34

    Shamrock Shuffle 8K 03/25 43:29

    Chi Town Half 4/01 1:57

    Illinois Marathon 4/28 3:56

    Wisconsin Marathon 5/05 3:56

    Lake Geneva Marathon 5/12 3:56

    Rockford Marathon 5/20 4:08

    Soldier Field 10 Mile 5/26 1:31

    Run for the Zoo 5K 6/03 19:57 PR

    13.1 Chicago 6/09 1:50

    North Shore Half 6/10 1:46

    Rock 'n' Roll Chicago 7/22

    Chicago Half 9/09

    Fox Valley Marathon 9/16

    Chicago Marathon 10/07

  • MelissaGraham7 Legend 315 posts since
    Nov 2, 2010

    Marie:  I went to Omega Sports and got fitted professionally for running shoes and it has made a HUGE difference in my comfort - and in my form and speed.   That is the first time I didn't buy shoes by picking them off the shelf myself.  I took in my old shoes plus had done the "wet test" at home (stepping on a piece of plain paper with a wet foot and then tracing the outline) so that the salesperson could see that I have a neutral foot, etc.   Anyway, it took about 45 minutes but the woman was thorough and also was a runner.   She tried me in 6 different brands of shoes - each time taking me outside to actually run around the building in them.  I loved her!   I ended up with a pair of Asics Gels and Brooks Gels (stability shoes) and they are heavenly.   I bought 2 pairs because I have read that it is better to alternate both for the shoes and for your legs and also - it was buy one, get second 1/2 off.  They were a little pricey - about $120 per pair - but given how much I love running and love my comfort, they are well worth it - plus, averaging 500 miles per pair - I won't need more shoes until next January. 

     

    Note - I had previously been a New Balance lover, also.  These shoes were sooooo much better for my foot!

     

    I was dismayed when she actually recommended I buy a shoe 1-1/2 sizes bigger than I normally bought but I had been buying shoes with my toes near the end and no room for swelling/expansion.  So, forgetting the number and that they look huge (LOL)  they are very comfortable.  I highly recommend getting fitted by a professional.  She also guaranteed the shoes and if I have any discomfort whatsoever, I am to bring the shoes back and they will exchange them.  That's the advantage to not going on line, I suppose.  I wouldn't be shoes on line except now that I know these 2 brands and sizes, I probably would.  They are a full size apart, though.

     

    Anyway - my unsolicited 2-cents worth.     Anything that lets me run faster and further in more comfort is worth the $$.





    "Run when you can, walk when you have to, crawl if you must; just never give up!" Dean Karnazes

    Equinoxalizer 5K 3/19/2011: Time 37:13; 2nd place in age group!

    Dogwood 5K April 29, 2011: Time 36:15

    Running of the Bulls 8K 6/18/2011: Time: 61 minutes 15 seconds

    Mebane on the Move 10K 09/10/2011: Time 75 minutes 16 seconds; 1st in age group (oldest woman running!)

    Valentine's Massacre Marathon Relay 2/12/2012: Team distance 26.2 my pace 12:02 my distance 8 miles

    Fleet Feet 4-mile in Chapel Hill 4/22/2012: PR for 11:53 pace!! WOOOHOOO!

    Run for the Haw 5K on 5/26/2012: PR for 11:50 pace and First in Age Group! First race in Skele-Toes (minimalist shoes)

    Running of the Bulls 8K 6/02/2012:

    Yellow Brick Road 5-Miler 07/14/2012:

    Keep on running!

  • DJTucker Amateur 26 posts since
    Sep 26, 2009

    On the shoe subject.....  I had been intrigued with Newtons a few months ago which was why I even stopped off at the expo on Saturday - hence bought... I think I almost afraid of them!  They had to ship to me as they didn't have my size. They came in yesterday so I ran last night for one mile on the treadmill.  The Newton guy told me to start with very short distances and build up - didn't get to go today.  What is confusing to me is that I've had achillis (sp?) issues plus a little bit of plantar faciitis.  A podiatrist told me it was due to being flat footed and that I need some form of stability shoe plus inserts so I bought  Brooks and use Stemco (that might exactly right).  Not sure I can tell there was a lot of improvement - at least not in my heel.

     

    Before the Newton exhibit ,I stopped off and had my gait analyzed.  The Brooks rep said that I need to be running in a neutral shoe plus no insert.....  I feel like I'm spending a lot of money on shoes and still not exaclty sure what to be wearing.

     

    As far as running form, I've been trying to figure that out what seems like forever.  Not sure I understand Chi???  I don't even know how to change form!

  • Scrufffy Legend 252 posts since
    Dec 2, 2010

    DJ

     

    Man can I sympathize with what you are going through.  I am a rather anal type persoanlity. I have read over a dozen books on running since November. I read the Chi Running, Natural Running, Pose Method of Running, and numerous others. I made a commitment to implement what I have distilled out of the three books I mentioned.  There is not a Chi instructor in my state, so I am pretty much on my own. Unfortunately I am just a few months into getting back into running after decades off and many pounds on.  It is hard for me to come to grips with how slow I am as what feels like my natural pace is faster than my condition will let me go for more than a mile so I end up slowing down anyway.  I have been trying to increase my distance, increase my speed, implement the Chi/Natural/Pose running, while breaking in new shoes.  I am, to put it mildly, "stupid".

     

    Having said that I would recommend that you familiarize your self with Chi running by going to the web site: http://www.chirunning.com/  Browse around and try to get an idea of what Danny is trying to teach. If it looks good to you, buy the Chi Running book AND the Chi Running DVD. Then take it slow and easy. Probably the best thing that happened to me is a couple of minor injuries that forced me to do just that, take it easy.

     

    I was amazed that when I would do my runs, I would try to run what felt like was an easy pace, I was hard presssed to run 3 miles and at times could only do 2 or 2.5.  Earlier this week I took my first jog since my last injury. I forced myself to walk to warm up and then keep walking faster until it was easier to jog. I kept that jog pace without knowing how fast that was.  It turns out that I had no problem running 3 miles and felt comfortable and as if I could just keep going, but I had only indended to run for two miles and 3 was more than I really should have.

     

    It only took me 3 months and two injuries to learn to slow down. I will keep running very slow  ( it turns out to be just over 11 min per mile) and be over conservative in my return from the injury, and my concentration on the new technique.  The slow pace helped me feel the technique. It helped me learn more how it feels to do it right, and it taught me that if I want to increase my distance, I can do it easier at a slow pace. (Duh!)  As I increase my conditioning, faster will be a by product.

     

    The books tell you to "take it slow" meaning the transition.  They say it takes most people about 6 months (and some a lot more) to get right.  The first few attmpts should focus on no more than one of the features of the technique. As you get comfortable with the first feature, add another etc. Stretch out the learning process.

     

    Look at what ever you decide to do as an investment: in you, in your health, in your mental alertness, in your outlook on life, on your self immage.  It can be a BIG return and the quickest way to achieve it is to take it slow!  Be easy on yourself. Your progress will be significantly faster if you don't injur yourself and become forced to lay off for a while to recuperate.  An injury will not only stop you from running while you recupe, but you will have to gradually re-earn what you lost in conditioning after you get back on the road.

     

    Be good to yourself. The rewards are as great as the people you will find here on the Penguin pages.

     

    Goog running

    Jack





    Spa5k, 11/04/10, 30:58 2nd place senior

    Peace and Love 5k 3/16/11 29:05 1st place senior

    Toad Suck Daze 5k 30 April 11, 28:29 1st place age group

    2011 Spa 5k 11/19/11 25:55 1st place senior Personal Best, 2nd career

    Looking for a 10 k to run and if that goes well, a HM next spring

    A body at rest tends to stay .... on the couch!

    Jack

  • KIRK_T Legend 279 posts since
    Jun 25, 2010

    Jack,

     

    You are pretty much dead on with your observations.

    I read the Chi running book, and practiced on my own. I did pretty good but when I finally took a class it all fell in place.

    I do think that it can be done with out the class.

    When you are starting out focus on just one part of the form, and I would recommend the shorter stride & midfoot strike.

    I found that to be the easiest to master. The straightening, lengthening the spine was next in line. I found the hip rotation was most difficult for me.

    As you did I also found that once it all falls in place you do tend to run at a faster pace due to the increased efficiency.

    I can attribute the lack of fatigue in my legs after my last 2 HM's to this. I was tired but not my legs.

     

    Kirk





    Kirk: Started running again at 50.

    2010: 4-5K 1-3.5 mile 2-Half Marathon

    2011: 3-5K 1-3.5 mile 1-8K 1-10 mile 16-Half Marathon 1-Marathon


    Rock 'n' Roll Arizona Marathon 01/15/2012 3:28:33 PR & BQ

    F^3 Lake Half Marathon 01/28/2012 1:48:34

    Shamrock Shuffle 8K 03/25 43:29

    Chi Town Half 4/01 1:57

    Illinois Marathon 4/28 3:56

    Wisconsin Marathon 5/05 3:56

    Lake Geneva Marathon 5/12 3:56

    Rockford Marathon 5/20 4:08

    Soldier Field 10 Mile 5/26 1:31

    Run for the Zoo 5K 6/03 19:57 PR

    13.1 Chicago 6/09 1:50

    North Shore Half 6/10 1:46

    Rock 'n' Roll Chicago 7/22

    Chicago Half 9/09

    Fox Valley Marathon 9/16

    Chicago Marathon 10/07

  • MelissaGraham7 Legend 315 posts since
    Nov 2, 2010

    Scruffy and KirkT:  Thanks for the run-down on Chi Running.  I've heard it mentioned several times.  I went to the link you provided, Scruffy, and did some reading.  I noted a section addressing how, when we get tired, we tend to bend forward at the waist and over-flex our knees.   I had already been working on the mid foot strike and short stride (180 per minute) but not so much my posture.  On went out on my long run today and didn't use music and focused on my mind and body.  I remembered what he said and noted that, indeed, as I tired, I was bending at the waist with loose knees so I would lengthen my spine (the string through the top of the head thing) and focused on my posture, bending forward at the ankles, etc.   I did 6.87 miles in 85 minutes (12.3 minutes/miles).  That's actually the best I've ever done for distance and maintaining a good speed.  Well, maybe it still sounds slow to some of you (LOL) but that is fast for me!  Anyway, I also noted that as I focused on my posture when I began to tire, I felt less tired...  I also worked on dropping shoulders down and relaxing.  I'm going to have to go buy the book and DVD now, darn it!     But it was really good information.  I've been dabbling in barefoot running on the treadmill, where you really have to concentrate on your foot strike - and that is how I improved my stride.   So, I think the Chi has a lot going for it - keeping mind and body in tune to help prevent injury.  It was a gorgeous morning here in NC, by the way, with lots of birds and trees starting to bud.  





    "Run when you can, walk when you have to, crawl if you must; just never give up!" Dean Karnazes

    Equinoxalizer 5K 3/19/2011: Time 37:13; 2nd place in age group!

    Dogwood 5K April 29, 2011: Time 36:15

    Running of the Bulls 8K 6/18/2011: Time: 61 minutes 15 seconds

    Mebane on the Move 10K 09/10/2011: Time 75 minutes 16 seconds; 1st in age group (oldest woman running!)

    Valentine's Massacre Marathon Relay 2/12/2012: Team distance 26.2 my pace 12:02 my distance 8 miles

    Fleet Feet 4-mile in Chapel Hill 4/22/2012: PR for 11:53 pace!! WOOOHOOO!

    Run for the Haw 5K on 5/26/2012: PR for 11:50 pace and First in Age Group! First race in Skele-Toes (minimalist shoes)

    Running of the Bulls 8K 6/02/2012:

    Yellow Brick Road 5-Miler 07/14/2012:

    Keep on running!

  • KIRK_T Legend 279 posts since
    Jun 25, 2010

    Melissa,

     

    You got it!

     

    When you feel like it's becoming work again or you feel anything different in your legs it's time for a posture check.

    Congrats!

     

    Kirk





    Kirk: Started running again at 50.

    2010: 4-5K 1-3.5 mile 2-Half Marathon

    2011: 3-5K 1-3.5 mile 1-8K 1-10 mile 16-Half Marathon 1-Marathon


    Rock 'n' Roll Arizona Marathon 01/15/2012 3:28:33 PR & BQ

    F^3 Lake Half Marathon 01/28/2012 1:48:34

    Shamrock Shuffle 8K 03/25 43:29

    Chi Town Half 4/01 1:57

    Illinois Marathon 4/28 3:56

    Wisconsin Marathon 5/05 3:56

    Lake Geneva Marathon 5/12 3:56

    Rockford Marathon 5/20 4:08

    Soldier Field 10 Mile 5/26 1:31

    Run for the Zoo 5K 6/03 19:57 PR

    13.1 Chicago 6/09 1:50

    North Shore Half 6/10 1:46

    Rock 'n' Roll Chicago 7/22

    Chicago Half 9/09

    Fox Valley Marathon 9/16

    Chicago Marathon 10/07

  • Adaire39689 Rookie 1 posts since
    Mar 3, 2010

    I am 58 years old, did one 5K last year, and would really like to run more. I walk a lot but want to run more. I am on week 2 of the couch to 5K plan. Any tips?

  • Scrufffy Legend 252 posts since
    Dec 2, 2010

    Kirk

    "I found the hip rotation was most difficult for me."

     

    I couldn't agree more re. hip rotation. After reading all three books, hip rotation was put on the back burner. I thought it to be kind of  out of character with a lot of what is being published on the new running technique.

    The other day, I was trying to hobble around the golf course in those clunky golf shoes over hilly and wet terrain that I had an OH moment!  To get the discomfort in the leg to a minimum, I tried to keep my leg (both legs to maintain symmetry) bent at the knee and the ankle flexed so as not to push off from my toe. It was then that I discovered that keeping the hip tilt and rotating my hips I could walk up or down hill using the hip rotation to move me and it did away with all the discomfort!   I found the walking done this way was actually therapeutic.

     

    I am sure this is one of those things that an instructor could have communicated effectively in a few minutes, but I could not get it from the book or the DVD.  Watching that portion of the DVD, I tried the exercise and was convinced it put unnecessary torque on the leg/hip  joints.  Also it felt so awkward and made me want to turn my foot while it was on the ground.  But slow walking using the hip rotation to generate forward movement fell into place.  I can’t wait to continue my learning. I look forward to each day’s walk/jog, and in a while, run.

     

    When I took Karate, the sensei would have us learn everything slow to get the precise movement and balance down. Once we got the movement down, we were allowed to speed up.  That is a lesson I should have been employing to my attempt to learn Chi Running.  Chi walking will from this point on be a part of my life as well as my learning journey.   I have finally changed my focus from “farther and faster” to “learning, perfecting, and practicing”.  I’ll let farther and faster be by products of the improvement in my technique, health and condition. I haven't  learned patience, but I have learned to attempt it.





    Spa5k, 11/04/10, 30:58 2nd place senior

    Peace and Love 5k 3/16/11 29:05 1st place senior

    Toad Suck Daze 5k 30 April 11, 28:29 1st place age group

    2011 Spa 5k 11/19/11 25:55 1st place senior Personal Best, 2nd career

    Looking for a 10 k to run and if that goes well, a HM next spring

    A body at rest tends to stay .... on the couch!

    Jack

  • Scrufffy Legend 252 posts since
    Dec 2, 2010

    Great Melissa!

     

    That was my experience the first time I tried to implement Chi Runing. It was one of the best runs I had since my restart.  I feel lucky to have made the decision to go the Chi path. Keep us updated on how it goes.

     

    Just a note: I think the dicipline of maintaining focus while you run is of great value in many ways for running and it transfers to daily life.

     

    Good running

    J





    Spa5k, 11/04/10, 30:58 2nd place senior

    Peace and Love 5k 3/16/11 29:05 1st place senior

    Toad Suck Daze 5k 30 April 11, 28:29 1st place age group

    2011 Spa 5k 11/19/11 25:55 1st place senior Personal Best, 2nd career

    Looking for a 10 k to run and if that goes well, a HM next spring

    A body at rest tends to stay .... on the couch!

    Jack

  • Scrufffy Legend 252 posts since
    Dec 2, 2010

    Adaire

     

    Welcome to the thread.  You'll find good folks here to share your experience with and if you're like me you will learn and be encouraged.  Its a great place.

     

    If you think your a slow runner, check out the Penguiin thread.   http://community.active.com/thread/91142/calling-all-penguins-slow-runners/1740/0

    Lots of new friends there too!

     

    Glad to meet you

     

    Jack





    Spa5k, 11/04/10, 30:58 2nd place senior

    Peace and Love 5k 3/16/11 29:05 1st place senior

    Toad Suck Daze 5k 30 April 11, 28:29 1st place age group

    2011 Spa 5k 11/19/11 25:55 1st place senior Personal Best, 2nd career

    Looking for a 10 k to run and if that goes well, a HM next spring

    A body at rest tends to stay .... on the couch!

    Jack

  • billb3 Rookie 1 posts since
    Feb 21, 2008

    Interesting Thread.  Glad I found it.

     

    I'm a 53 yr old experienced runner, and would like to add to the positive comments about Chi Running.

    I have battled Achilles pain since I returned to marathon training age 49.  We're talking chronic, stop running kinda pain.   I had been thru a litany of therapies, most didn't work long term, including orthotics and physical therapy.   ChiRunnning is one of two things responsible for my current pain free running and thorough enjoyment of climbing back to age group competitive fitness.

     

    I very much recommend to 50+ newbie runners who are enjoying increasing their running distances to explore ChiRunning.   Odds are REAL high you are running in a poor form that will eventually cause you pain and cause setbacks to your training (if you aren't there already) if you continue to get fitter and increase your running mileage.

     

    I have been practicing (and still learning) proper running form thru ChiRunning for almost 2 years now.   I devoured the book and DVD and also had instruction thru Chris Griffin, ChiRunning Master Instructor in San Francisco (fabulous teacher!).   I'm glad to see people having self-taught success via the book and DVD.   I would have to say, for me, I think having an instructor observe and videotape my running and give me feedback was paramount.  I am not so sure I would have "got it" without the instructor element.

     

    To Kirk and Jack, YES, for me too, hip rotation was a later learned focus and critical one allowing me to get to a next training level plateau.

     

    ...  newbie runners, get a metronome!   

  • Scrufffy Legend 252 posts since
    Dec 2, 2010

    Bill

     

    Welcome and glad to meet you.  Great to have more Chi or general naturalistic running experience here.  I believe that, like myself, there are many with more enthusiasm for Chi running than expertice or experience. We are a mutually supportive group and a lot of our learning is from each other.

     

    Look forward to hearing from you often. We won't hold your youth against you!

     

    Jack





    Spa5k, 11/04/10, 30:58 2nd place senior

    Peace and Love 5k 3/16/11 29:05 1st place senior

    Toad Suck Daze 5k 30 April 11, 28:29 1st place age group

    2011 Spa 5k 11/19/11 25:55 1st place senior Personal Best, 2nd career

    Looking for a 10 k to run and if that goes well, a HM next spring

    A body at rest tends to stay .... on the couch!

    Jack

  • PaintingLady Legend 906 posts since
    Dec 12, 2009

    Wow, a real flurry of activity here. Melissa, tks for the advise re shoes. I've been to pros for fitting and have read lots on web re. appropriate shoes for foot and gait type. The shoes I"m currently in, Asic Gel NImbus 12, are fine, but stiff and have built up heel. Following Chi Running recommendations, and mid foot landing, I'm naturally a forefoot striker, I need something more flexble and am looking for a more minimalist heel. Hence the thoughts on the NB 801, Brooks that Jack walks in, Saucony Kinvara, etc. My problem is that none of the running shoe stores carry a selection in those type of shoes. Fleet feet carrys the Kinvara, but that is about it.Like DJ, I feel like I've tried a bunch of shoes and will try more before that perfect one comes along....and then it will likely be discontinued.

    Bill, welcome. I look forward to your experienced input to our group.

    Adaire, welcome. My tip.....keep putting one foot in front of the other. Seriously, take it slow and easy. Work on form and enjoy the moment.

    Kirk & Jack, I'm right there w/ you on the hip swing thing. I find I can do it for a brief time running, but am not totally comfortable w/ it yet. I think I learned more about form after reading and viewing the Chi WALKING book. That was subsequent to having read the Chi Running book, 1st edition, 2nd edition, watching the DVD and spending a private session w/ Chi Instructor Jeff Carnivale. He recommended I get the walking info. Perhaps it was because this old lady was breathing so hard and it wasn't over his hot young body. Well, he was cute, but we both are married. In my defense, it was just a couple of weeks after I returned to running following my hip stress fracture. Still, I tend to breathe hard and run faster than I should, even though I'm still SLOW!.

    I had planned a 5 mile run today and the weather is gorgeous, but I've got something funky going on with my shin. I don't know if it is a nerve or blood vessel, but it is tingling and feels strange. Just thought it might be best to stay off my feet today and give it a go tomorrow.

    Ain't getting old grand!

    Happy running everyone!

    Marie





    Marie from Tennessee

    Training for Disney 2013 Goofy Challenge.....Yes, I'm certifiably CRAZY!

    61 year olds must be out of their minds to run a half marathon followed by a full the next day!

    Disney Half Marathon 1/7/2012 2:37:59

    Bear Hunt 5K 9/24/11 28:28 pb

    Trojan Trek Trail 5K 8/6/11 31:45

    Expo 10K 5/28/11 1:01:28,

    Expo 10K 5/26/12 1:05:39

    Eastman 10K 9/8/2012 1:01:11 pb

    "Let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us." Hebrews 12:1


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