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695 Views 19 Replies Latest reply: Jul 10, 2010 7:35 AM by Manny_A 1 2 Previous Next
JoeG_87 Amateur 17 posts since
May 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Jul 7, 2010 2:50 PM

Running start

Hi all:

 

never seen this before, until last night.

 

OBR: R3 would do this every pitch:  touch base, move behind 3rd about 3 steps, up line towards LF in foul territory, stop.  When F1 commits to pitch, R3 would run towards home in foul territory, not touch 3rd on way by.  When F2 catches ball, R3 retreats towards LF going up line, touches 3rd on way by, then continues 3 steps or so up line and stops.

 

Would you uphold a missed base appeal if R3 attempted to score on a hit or past ball?

 

JoeG

  • DawgDays Pro 156 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Jul 7, 2010 3:35 PM (in response to JoeG_87)
    Re: Running start

    7.10(a) prohibits a "flying start" from behind the base.  However, it's part of the retouch rule, so I don't know how applicable it would be to your situation.  I'd be inclined to try to apply this and tell the runner to knock it off.

     

    However, I might also consider allowing the appeal.  R3 has retreated beyond 3B, and did not touch the base on the last time by, making him liable to be put out on appeal.  I think I could make that one work too.

     

    Should be an interesting discussion, and I'm waiting to see what folks have to say.

  • trexonu Pro 163 posts since
    Feb 22, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Jul 7, 2010 4:23 PM (in response to DawgDays)
    Re: Running start

    When F2 catches ball, R3 retreats towards LF going up line, touches 3rd on way by, then continues 3 steps or so up line and stops.

    OK, does this mean that upon F2's catch of a pitch, R3 is running AWAY from Home?

  • FTBA Pro 61 posts since
    Jul 28, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Jul 8, 2010 12:59 AM (in response to trexonu)
    Re: Running start

    Doesn't make any difference where R3 starts in the OP, because a play is not being made on him.

     

    This is one of the finer examples of pi$$-poor coaching I've ever heard of, BTW.

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Jul 8, 2010 2:53 AM (in response to Atlanta_Blue)
    Re: Running start

    OK, does this mean that upon F2's catch of a pitch, R3 is running AWAY from Home?

     

    What's that got to do with anything?

     

    I really don't think this is anything.  R3 never headed back towards second base on this, so he never retreated past third in the wrong direction that would require a "Last Time By" call.

     

    Suppose with R3 only, the BR overruns first on a ground ball in the infield, beats the throw and then turns wide right towards the fence.  In the meantime, F3 throws the ball home to make a play on R3 who tries to score on the play, and the throw gets by F2.  Seeing this, the BR, from his position about ten feet into foul territory beyond first base, takes off directly to second.  Are you going to invoke "Last Time By" here because he was behind first base when he started, and never touched first as he took off for second?

     

    I would argue the same applies in the OP.  If R3 never takes a step towards second base, he really never passed third in the wrong direction.

  • bobjenkins Pro 120 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Jul 8, 2010 6:24 AM (in response to FTBA)
    Re: Running start

    In FED, you could get an out on appeal.  2010 Interp #9.  (An interp I strongly disagree with.)

  • trexonu Pro 163 posts since
    Feb 22, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Jul 8, 2010 8:26 AM (in response to JoeG_87)
    Re: Running start

    Just looking for clarity.  Did you see R3 continue and attempt to score if F2 didn't catch the ball?

  • Bob__863 Rookie 2 posts since
    Nov 16, 2002
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Jul 8, 2010 10:25 AM (in response to bobjenkins)
    Re: Running start

    For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would do something like this in OBR.  Why start several feet farther from Home rather than take the standard lead in foul territory and start toward home once the pitcher is committed to the pitch.  Definitely stupid coaching

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Jul 8, 2010 4:28 PM (in response to JoeG_87)
    Re: Running start

    This is the point of my question. R3 is behind the base when he begins his running start. He does not touch the base as he runs past the base. Would you uphold a missed base appeal here?

     

    As I already said in my previous post, I would say this is nothing.  So I wouldn't uphold a missed base appeal.

  • Atlanta_Blue Pro 149 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Jul 8, 2010 5:02 PM (in response to Bob__863)
    Re: Running start

    Would you uphold a missed base appeal if R3 attempted to score on a hit or past ball?

     

    Absolutely.  The runner did not touch the base his last time by.  The fact that he wasn't "around the corner" toward 2B doesn't matter.

     

    EXAMPLE:  R1 off on a hit and run, overslides 2B straight toward left center field, completely passing the base.  Turns out fly ball was caught, R1 retreats to 1B.  He IS required to retouch 2B on his way back to 1B because he COMPLETELY passed 2B.  Doesn't matter that he didn't step toward 3B.

     

    So in this case, R3 retreated COMPLETELY passed 3B, and didn't touch it on his last time by.  He is subject to appeal.

     

    And besides: Punish stupidity whenever possible! 

  • trexonu Pro 163 posts since
    Feb 22, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Jul 8, 2010 6:11 PM (in response to Manny_A)
    Re: Running start

    I protest the fact that R3 ran backwards to LF.

  • DawgDays Pro 156 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    14. Jul 8, 2010 7:46 PM (in response to bobjenkins)
    Re: Running start

    trex,

     

    Why?  It's not intended to confuse the defense or make a travesty of the game.

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