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6324 Views 71 Replies Latest reply: Nov 29, 2007 3:20 PM by PeterP002 Go to original post 1 2 3 4 5 Previous Next
  • Tawan Rookie 97 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    15. Nov 27, 2007 5:00 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    There are people in the world who suffer much worse than what could happen to this guy.

    Say he got away with only partial punishment and became a professional, imagine the damage he would do to the people who rely on him to provide his knowledge to help them resolve the issues, problems.

  • Beer Gut Rookie 59 posts since
    May 27, 2003
    Currently Being Moderated
    17. Nov 27, 2007 5:07 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    I'm all for giving somebody a break, but it looks like you've already done that with this guy.  He's working on your sentiments rather than your professionalism, and he's bringing in personal repercussions for his own behavior.  Admirable qualities for a PhD candidate?  I wouldn't think so.

    However, it IS within your power to just fail him. But what would happen after that? When he took the class again, would YOU be the instructor, or would he have somebody who didn't know his history? If you are the only one teaching this class (and know that you'd have him next term), you could put some pretty strong caveats into this deal.

    For instance, you could fail him miserably, and next time hammer him for the smallest mistake. He might just become a better student (and person) because of this. He might get somebody else, though, and pull the wool over their eyes like he's trying to do with you.

    He could also get you into a lot of trouble if you didn't go by the book. Suicide? It wouldn't be your fault, it would indeed be HIS. He knew the chance he was taking, and it sounds like he pulled a lot of info from Wiki.

    Bottom line: it's your call.  Good luck with it.

  • Aslowhiteguy053 Rookie 59 posts since
    Jul 14, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    18. Nov 27, 2007 5:11 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    quote:


    Originally posted by Desert Tortoise:

    I normally would say screw the b@stard, but that's because 97.3% of these students are lying pieces of sh!t. But I also trust Leggova's assessment of his situation. If he's telling the truth, and it seems Leggova believes he is, then I would probably give the student an F.

    Besides being lying pieces of sh!t, most students who cheat are also in a situation that is causing them to panic and resort to desperate acts.


     



    i agree with DT. and we never agree, unless it's about baseball.

    just give him an F and wash your hands of the situation. you don't want the kind of guilt you may suffer if you turn him in.
    what they call "saving face" over there is something we westerners cannot fully grasp. he and his family will lose face.

    i don't suppose he could audit the credit?

  • ptbrown Legend 422 posts since
    Aug 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    19. Nov 27, 2007 5:14 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    He's cheated twice, once after being warned.   Either he's not serious about his education or simply doesn't have the capability to succeed.

    Do you want a person who is dishonest and either lazy or incompetent to wear your stamp of approval?

    You've given him a second chance.  Since he's squandered his chance, follow procedure.  Perhaps the Disciplinary Coucil will take his personal issues into consideration.  You've already been more than generous.

  • Aslowhiteguy053 Rookie 59 posts since
    Jul 14, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    20. Nov 27, 2007 5:14 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    quote:


    Originally posted by Leggova:

    Yes...this is a concern.

    Anyone want to guess what field he is in?


     



    surely not Law?  no, medicine.

  • bigapplepie Legend 2,455 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    21. Nov 27, 2007 5:15 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    quote:


    Originally posted by Leggova:

    Yes...this is a concern.

    Anyone want to guess what field he is in?


     



    Psychiatry?

  • moosensquirrel Rookie 66 posts since
    Dec 13, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    22. Dec 20, 2007 6:09 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    Is it possible that his supervisor would not find out ... perhaps through the efforts of the Disciplinary Committee?

    He can present the same "reasons" he gave you and let the ethical solution fall into their laps.

    But, I understand you might not know the answer to that question ...

    You say all the work he has done up to now will be wasted, but he apparently isn't working that hard if he's plagarizing.

    This is a tough call, but it's good you recognize that he IS manipulating you ...

    [http://This message has been edited by moosensquirrel (edited Nov-27-2007).|http://This message has been edited by moosensquirrel (edited Nov-27-2007).]

  • stitcher05089 Rookie 180 posts since
    Mar 3, 2005
    Currently Being Moderated
    24. Nov 27, 2007 5:20 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    I sit on the committee that this student would see at our university.

    If you've used the first instance as a "teaching moment" and he's done it again, in my mind, he's used up his "chance."

    I have a student right now who's in the process of being "sent up" for ...."issues" and yes it's a pain
    yes it's embarrassing
    but,
    it's also one of the things that's important to help students learn.

    He's done this again because he's gotten away with it in the past.

    As long as you've given him the opportunity to learn (which, it sounds like is the case), and aren't springing this on him ...then, I'd send him up.

    But, that's me.

    Stitch

  • ElDuderino095 Rookie 190 posts since
    Oct 17, 2005
    Currently Being Moderated
    26. Nov 27, 2007 5:22 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    I think you are obligated to follow through with the reporting to the graduate committee as per policy..... but you are also obligated to inform the student health administration or similar person of your concern over his mental health. The Virginia Tech campus shootings happened because, despite obvious signs, the university didn't take steps to make sure the person was not a risk to himself or to other people. I think as educators who are in daily contact with these students, it's our responsibility to report concerns about a student's mental state (for his protection as well as everyone else's).

  • bigapplepie Legend 2,455 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    28. Nov 27, 2007 5:28 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    Leggova, he's an adult human being not a helpless kitten.

    Stop stressing out and fail the phucker!

  • clasko2596 Rookie 44 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    29. Dec 20, 2007 6:09 PM (in response to Leggova)
    Re: An ethical dilemma - What would you do?

    quote:


    Originally posted by bigapplepie:

    Leggova, he's an adult human being not a helpless kitten.

    Stop stressing out and fail the phucker!


     



    Big fat 1!


    Edited to add: Ooops...my bad, scratch the xenophobic comments. Didn't realize you were in Hong Kong. I don't know squat about Hong Kong. Other than it rhymes.



    [http://This message has been edited by clasko2596 (edited Nov-27-2007).|http://This message has been edited by clasko2596 (edited Nov-27-2007).]

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