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3494 Views 19 Replies Latest reply: Jul 15, 2010 6:39 AM by bobjenkins RSS 1 2 Previous Next
T__47 Amateur 24 posts since
Jun 30, 2002
Currently Being Moderated

Jun 9, 2010 9:36 AM

dh rules

I umpire with OBR but the American Legion is having use the Fed (HS) designated hitter rules.  Can anyone tell me what the Fed rules are for the DH?  Thanks.

  • ccanes Pro 75 posts since
    Apr 15, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Jun 9, 2010 10:26 AM (in response to T__47)
    Re: dh rules

    www.nfhs.org should have the information. The key is that the DH and the player he is dh for are locked in the batting order. If the player he is dh-ing for enters game as pinch hitter, pinch runner, dh role is gone. DH is a starter and also has re-entry privileges. The DH role is probably one of the most confusing roles for a baseball coach. If you do not find info on the website, let me know.

  • bluezebra Pro 84 posts since
    May 26, 2000
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Jun 9, 2010 11:09 AM (in response to ccanes)
    Re: dh rules

    "The DH role is probably one of the most confusing roles for a baseball coach."

     

    Not really. It's rather simple. The DH and the Defensive Player are locked into the same spot in the lineup. If the DH plays defense, or the DP plays offense (bats, pinch runs, etc.), the DH is eliminated for the rest of the game. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to learn that.

     

    Bob

  • Pete_Booth Pro 163 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Jun 9, 2010 11:43 AM (in response to bluezebra)
    Re: dh rules

    If the player he is dh-ing for enters game as pinch hitter, pinch runner, dh role is gone.

     

    Cannot happen

     

    Able

    Baker

    Charles

     

    Pete is the DH for Charles who is playing CF.

     

    Charles CANNOT be a pinch hitter or a pinch runner becasue he is in the game already. He can be a substitutue but ONLY for Pete.

     

    Pete and Charles are LOCKED into the same  position in the batting order and Each has Re-entry rights.

     

    In other words if Pete was on base, Charles could Substitutue for Pete and go on base. Pete in turn can re-enter and the DH is still IN-TACT.

     

    Same would be true if Charles batted for Pete. AS long as Pete did not go in and play defense the DH is still ok.

     

    If Pete comes into the game and plays CF THEN the role of the DH is terminated. 

     

    In FED it's simple The DH and the player for whom he is DHing for are LOCKED. If the DH plays defense role of DH terminated.

     

    Also, in all codes if there is NO DH at the start of the game then there is NO DH for that game.

     

    Pete Booth

  • ccanes Pro 75 posts since
    Apr 15, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Jun 9, 2010 12:39 PM (in response to Pete_Booth)
    Re: dh rules

    Bob,

    Still say it CAN be confusing. For instance, Jones is the DH and is batting for 2B Smith in the 5th hole. In the 4th inning substitute Green pinch runs for Jones and thus becomes the "DH" occupying the 5th hole in the batting order. In the 6th inning Jones re-enters as a DP in RF. The RF, White, moves to LF and LF Gray moves to 2B. THat would confuse anybody.

  • bobjenkins Pro 120 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Jun 9, 2010 12:46 PM (in response to T__47)
    Re: dh rules

    "What is the status of the DH? "

     

    (incorrect answer deleted and replace with:)

     

    In FED, the DH is for a particular batting order spot, not a position.  SO, the DH is still in effect.

     

    In your specific play:

     

    Original lineup:

    Abel F7

    Baker DH / Jackson F1

    Charles

    Daniel

    etc.

     

     

    Revised Lineup:

    Sub1 F1

    Baker DH / Jackson F7

    Charles

    Daniel

    etc.

     

     

  • ccanes Pro 75 posts since
    Apr 15, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Jun 9, 2010 12:47 PM (in response to bobjenkins)
    Re: dh rules

    Legal, as long as batting order not altered. DH will continue to hit for the pitcher in the battin order.

  • Phillieball Pro 99 posts since
    Mar 23, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Jun 9, 2010 8:13 PM (in response to mrumpiresir)
    Re: dh rules

    Sorry, but it's not over.

     

    The DH is DHing for the player (spot in the order), not the position.  In this case, the only thing that changes is Jackson's position.

     

    I have seen it where the starting F1 was designated on the line-up card as both the DH and the Defensive Player.  When he came out for a reliever, he continued as the DH.

  • mrumpiresir Amateur 26 posts since
    Oct 22, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Jun 9, 2010 8:31 PM (in response to ccanes)
    Re: dh rules

    Sounds like we are confusing the PRO rule, the NCAA rule, and the FED rule.

     

    We are talking FED rules here. The DH rule is not that complicated. They are two players in one spot in the batting order. Both are starters and have reentry priveleges like any other starter.  They could never both play defense at the same time and they could never be in different spots in the batting order.

     

    Pete Booth Wrote "In other words if Pete was on base, Charles could Substitutue for Pete and go on base. Pete in turn can re-enter and the DH is still IN-TACT."

     

    and

     

    "Same would be true if Charles batted for Pete. AS long as Pete did not go in and play defense the DH is still ok."

     

     

    Both of these statements are wrong.

     

    If the Defensive player, (Charles) plays any offensive role, (runs, or bats for the DH) the role of the DH is terminated.  Or if the DH, (Pete) plays defense, the role of the DH is also terminated.  

     

    Bob Jenkins is also wrong about the DH being terminated if F1 plays another position.

     

    The DH can hit for anyone so if he is hitting for the pitcher and the pitcher goes to another position, the role of the DH is not affected and is still in effect.

    See rule 3-1-4 in the FED book. 

     

  • mrumpiresir Amateur 26 posts since
    Oct 22, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Jun 9, 2010 8:44 PM (in response to mrumpiresir)
    Re: dh rules

    CCanes;  "Still say it CAN be confusing. For instance, Jones is the DH and is batting for 2B Smith in the 5th hole. In the 4th inning substitute Green pinch runs for Jones and thus becomes the "DH" occupying the 5th hole in the batting order. In the 6th inning Jones re-enters as a DP in RF. The RF, White, moves to LF and LF Gray moves to 2B. THat would confuse anybody."

     

    When Jones reenters to play defense, he must bat in the 5 hole so Green must leave the game. The role of the DH is now terminated so Smith must also leave.  Green is done for the day but Smith could reenter for Jones only.  The defensive position changes have no effect on the DH.

     

     

  • cookie__22 Amateur 18 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Jun 10, 2010 4:10 AM (in response to T__47)
    Re: dh rules

    '''...If the Defensive player, (Charles) plays any offensive role, (runs, or bats for the DH) the role of the DH is terminated. Or if the DH, (Pete) plays defense, the role of the DH is also terminated..."

     

    TRUE! So true!

     

    I had this issue come up in an April JV game. Coach asked if he could pinch-run his F9(who was being DH'd for) for the DH and would that terminate his DH? My response after some discussion was that it was OK as I thought the DH was only terminated after the DH entered a defensive position, not vice versa. However, the situation left me thinking, so I consulted the rule book later that evening after the game, and Lo and Behold, there it was in Rule 3-1-4! Same is true for the person being DHed for (as Mrumpiresir has said): if he takes on any offensive position (pinch run, or pinch hits for the DH), the DH is TERMINATED!

     

    Another learning experience...

     

    FED Rule 3-1-4:

    "...The role of the designated hitter is terminated for the remainder of the game when:

    A. the defensive player, or any previous defensive player for whom the desinated player batted, subsequently bats, pinch-hits or pinch-runs for the designated hiotter; or

    B. the designated hitter or any previous designated hitter assumes a defensive position.

     

    I'd say that sometimes the Fed DH rule is not a piece of cake or a can of corn, and as a noted poster on this board once said about the NCAA DH rule, "It's indecipherable!"

     

  • bobjenkins Pro 120 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Jun 10, 2010 6:22 AM (in response to cookie__22)
    Re: dh rules

    "Bob Jenkins is also wrong about the DH being terminated if F1 plays another position."

     

    +1.  I apologize for the confusion.

  • headinghome Pro 71 posts since
    May 27, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    14. Jul 9, 2010 11:25 AM (in response to bobjenkins)
    Re: dh rules

    Can the DH be courtesy run for by a player not in the game?

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