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1052 Views 5 Replies Latest reply: Oct 29, 2010 4:39 PM by Delaware ASA UIC RSS
Manny_A Legend
Manny_A
840 posts since
May 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Oct 14, 2010 7:14 AM

Double-First Question:  Obstruction or Not?

I umpired an 18U fall ball rec league (ASA rules) game last night, and had this situation that left me scratching my head.

 

Batter struck out on a called third, but F2 missed the pitch and it went to the backstop. BR took off for first. F3 was set up to take the throw on the orange bag. Problem was, the BR wanted to use the orange bag as well, and she quite obviously slowed down as she approached first before F3 had the ball. Her slowing down allowed F2 to throw her out by a step.

 

I called her out. But as I thought about it, I probably should have ruled Obstruction on F3. Then as I thought about it even more, I felt that she would not have been obstructed if she had used the white bag, which is allowed in this situation. She just chose to use the bag that she felt she had to use, I suppose.

 

So, should this have been Obstruction on F3? I'm ultimately thinking No. In a similar vein, I certainly wouldn't rule Obstruction on a routine infield ground ball play if the BR had slowed down while trying to touch the white bag if F3 was on it.  So does the same argument apply here?

 

BTW, I don't have my ASA rules handy, so I can't reference them. Perhaps the rule on the double-first base bag covers this, but I can't verify it.

 

  • illiniheel67 Rookie
    illiniheel67
    2 posts since
    Oct 20, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Oct 20, 2010 1:35 PM (in response to Manny_A)
    Re: Double-First Question: Obstruction or Not?

    The obstruction would depend on from where the catcher may her throw. Unless she threw from foul territory, F3 MUST take the white portion of the base. There are differences between fielding batted balls and thrown balls.

     

    If the amount of obstruction equalled or exceeded the cause for the out, the BR should be called safe.

  • Az_Umpire Amateur
    Az_Umpire
    11 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Oct 20, 2010 9:21 PM (in response to illiniheel67)
    Re: Double-First Question: Obstruction or Not?

    Obstruction unless a running lane violation. Interference overrules  obstruction. If the ball is in foul territory the defense can use either bag but the BR still has a choice and is not forced to go to the white bag. Simple. Is F3 fielding a batted ball or does she have possession of the ball? Did BR interfere with the fielder taking the throw while not in the running lane, unless the fielder is using the colored portion of the bag? Did the BR do anything intentional to interfere?

     

    Say What?

    If the amount of obstruction equalled or exceeded the cause for the out, the BR should be called safe

     

    Paul

  • Delaware ASA UIC Pro
    Delaware ASA UIC
    76 posts since
    Jan 9, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Oct 21, 2010 4:26 PM (in response to Az_Umpire)
    Re: Double-First Question: Obstruction or Not?

    The obstruction would depend on from where the catcher may her throw. Unless she threw from foul territory, F3 MUST take the white portion of the base.

     

    Well, that is wrong.  If the throw is coming from foul territory on the 1B side, BOTH players may, MAY use either portion of the base.  Neither is required to use the opposite of the normal.

     

    Since, BY RULE, F3 is permitted to use the orange portion, I don't believe obstruction is an available call.

  • Alec__5 Rookie
    Alec__5
    4 posts since
    Aug 31, 2002
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Oct 29, 2010 1:16 PM (in response to Delaware ASA UIC)
    Re: Double-First Question: Obstruction or Not?

    I think there's a HTBT aspect that is missing from the OP, without which we really can't answer the question.  Was F3 using the orange bag because the throw took her there, or was she just camped out on it, anticipating that the throw would come from foul territory and force her onto the orange bag.  In the first case, she clearly has a right to it, and I've got no call.  In the second case, and argument could be made for obstruction, since a defensive player was somewhere she didn't have a right to be, and affected the runner.  It's not just that the ball is in foul territory, but the throw actually has to justify F3 using the orange bag

  • Delaware ASA UIC Pro
    Delaware ASA UIC
    76 posts since
    Jan 9, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Oct 29, 2010 4:39 PM (in response to Alec__5)
    Re: Double-First Question: Obstruction or Not?

    I think there's a HTBT aspect that is missing from the OP, without which we really can't answer the question. Was F3 using the orange bag because the throw took her there, or was she just camped out on it, anticipating that the throw would come from foul territory and force her onto the orange bag. In the first case, she clearly has a right to it, and I've got no call. In the second case, and argument could be made for obstruction, since a defensive player was somewhere she didn't have a right to be, and affected the runner. It's not just that the ball is in foul territory, but the throw actually has to justify F3 using the orange bag

     

    You are overthinking this and trying to justify an answer that doesn't exist.  The rule book clearly states the fielder may use the colored portion of the base if the the throw is coming from foul ground on the 1B side.  If there is a failure here, it is that of the coach not providing the BR proper direction.  It is not OBS.

     

     

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