quote:

---

Originally posted by PacerChris:

Good clarification - 7:15 should feel comfortable at the start of the marathon and for the first several miles, not necessarily during peak training!

---

 

"...first several miles..."  Chris can you be more specific?  First 10? First 15? And then?  How do you predictable-as-clockwork folks feel with that pace the rest of the distance?  Thanks, zh

quote:

---

Originally posted by zoomharp:

"...first several miles..." Chris can you be more specific? First 10? First 15? And then? How do you predictable-as-clockwork folks feel with that pace the rest of the distance? Thanks, zh

---

 

I'd say the first 8-10 miles at least need to feel easy, almost slow. If you start looking for the mile markers early, that's a bad sign - I know I'm going to have a good day when the mile marker shows up and I think "Geez, it's there already? I feel like I just got started!"

Assuming you're hitting your pace, the first ~8 miles should feel a little too easy, then you should feel comfortable for another 8 miles or so. At 16-18, you should still feel good - like you've been running for a bit, but still pretty fresh - you could pick it up if you needed to, but you're still a long way from home. When I hit 20 miles, I start thinking about one more mile, then when you hit the next mile think the same thing. When I'm pacing, I start telling my group the total time left when it's about an hour or less left - sometimes that's an easier way to think about it then 8 more miles or whatever is left because that's about what your normal daily run is.

To reiterate what other folks are saying - don't get greedy.  Much better to feel like you left a few minutes out on the course than to go out hard and blow up and lose huge chunks of time.  If you run a conservative pace for 20 miles and then pick it up, you can bank 10-20 seconds per mile the last 10k.  If you go too early, like at 16, that's 10 miles of pushing hard...that's not easy to do.  Plus, passing people after 20 miles is a huge confidence boost - you can set your sights on someone up the road and then reel them in - that really helps the time pass when you're struggling because you aren't thinking about pace or how far to the mileage marker, you're just looking at someone's back and watching them get closer.

I like to do 2 longer MP runs before the big show - One maybe 8 weeks out and one 5 weeks out.  Depending on how I am feeling between 20K-25K.

Just remember you are an experiment of 1 - No one can tell you how to best train you - They can only give you lots of ideas of what has worked best for them or others -

I personally like lots of the ideas in both Pfitz and JD, but like to tailor it to my needs.

Increase your mileage slowly - rule of thumb is not more than 10%/week and then cut it back every ~3 weeks or so.  In other words - 30, then 33, then 36, then cut back to 32 or so, then go back up to 39 and so on.  If you have a 16 week program in mind, use the time between now & then to gradually build up your mileage and getting used to running higher mileage.  You can BQ on peaking at 45-50 mpw, but it's not easy.  Right now you need to think about training to train - getting in shape to the point that you can manage higher mileage and adding more quality workouts.

Dallas is a really enjoyable marathon - no killer hills, decent sized, etc. It's a fun one to do (despite the distrubing image of the guys in drag as Dolly Parton at the base of the Dolly Parton hills...luckily those dudes are preceded by the Hooters water stop - pray for a hot day so they are wearing skimpy outfits!)

----

Pacer Dude[/URL" target="_blank">

quote:

---

Originally posted by wing zero:

My question to all of you is...
If I feel pretty comfortable with 30 mpw. How hard would it be to continue on and do Pfitz's 55 program that starts with 30 mpw and moves up toward 55 and back down??
Is that normal for someone to go from 30 mpw and then safley go up to 55 for a marathon program?
Has anyone had a similar experience? If so, how did it go?

---

 

The first time I did Pfitz's 18/55, I started at a 30 mpw base. By the 4th or 5th week the schedule was a bit too hard for me because I was also doing hard track workouts every week for a mile race. My legs were just tired/crampy and I had a nagging achilles issue. Apparently I was just not recovering enough between workouts. SO, I had to cut back for about 6 weeks. Once I felt 100% again, I was able to jump back in for the remaining schedule. It wasn't a perfect training season, but I was healthy, strong and able to BQ.

The second time around I was able to follow it to the T with no problem. I think the key is to pay attention to your body and your recovery as you start ramping up the miles. If it seems too hard, lighten the load a little so you can adjust. Following it religiously only to be overtrained will do little for you come race day. I found the best runs to cut were recovery runs. Just completely rest or cross train. Make sure you still get in the quality workouts if you can.

Good luck!!

I've used a few plans, but the one that worked was Pfitz's 24/55.  The key for me besides the speedwork were the medium long runs that he incorporates in the middle of the training.  Running these at near tempo pace is what I felt enabled me to BQ.  I also modified the plan by increasing 2 of the 20 milers to 22 milers.  In the past, the 20 mile mark in the marathon was a mental/physical barrier for me.  If you use this plan, make sure that the rest/easy days are just that.  This high mileage will take its toll if you don't allow your body to repair itself.