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2350 Views 10 Replies Latest reply: Jun 6, 2011 9:47 AM by MyTwoSons
4 my 2 Boys Rookie 2 posts since
Jun 1, 2011
Currently Being Moderated

Jun 1, 2011 6:55 PM

Illegal bat/End of game

My son is 8 and plays AAA.   During a very important game   An older brother of one of our team-mates spots the opposing team using a softball bat.   .  No penalty (if there even is one was applied). The umps are HS kids and some better then others I understand they are learning as well.  She did however remove the bat from the game. 

 

Then..We were tied up 8-8 bottom of the fourth our pitcher walks in a run.  We usually play for two hours or six innings.  We had 7 minutes left to play and only one run to make up for a tie.  The ump ended the game (and another ump was trying to convience the 1st ump to let us play.)  Is there a rule saying we MUST play two hours or six innings.  It was really hard to explain to the kids why they weren't given the chance to catch up.  The coach asked the ump why we couldn't play and The opposing coach (of course didn't want us to get at bat again.)  He even went so far as to say our coach was harrassing the ump...which I heard everything and he in no way disrespected the umps at all, he was simply asking a question.   Is there a rule stating how much of a game is to be played? 

 

 

Thanks.

  • MyTwoSons Community Moderator 224 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Jun 1, 2011 9:33 PM (in response to 4 my 2 Boys)
    Re: Illegal bat/End of game

    You need to look at the league rules.  The rules may have a time limit and either a rule of "no new inning" or "drop dead."  In the 1st case you should have had time to start a new inning, you need to field the minimum allowed number of players and the pitcher need only to take the mound before the 7 minutes passed.  In the second case, Drop Dead, the visiting team (your son's team) needed to have been able to at least tie the game AND allow the home team their at bats or 3 outs WITHIN in those 7 minutes or it would have reverted to the previous inning anyway.

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Jun 2, 2011 5:02 AM (in response to MyTwoSons)
    Re: Illegal bat/End of game

    An inning starts when the 3rd out of the previous inning is made.

    So, if you have a "no new inning after 2 hours" time limit and the 4th inning ends at 1:59, you play the 5th, even if the defense isn't on the field and the pitcher isn't on the mound until 2:01 or 2.02 or 2.03...

     

    Now, if you have a "drop dead time limit of 2 hours" then the game is over at 2 hours.

    If the 4th inning ends at 1:53 you "start" the 5th inning but at 2:00 the game ends.

  • Kyle_ Legend 556 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Jun 2, 2011 8:28 AM (in response to 4 my 2 Boys)
    Re: Illegal bat/End of game

    I'm going to assume this is in Little League, and answer as if it were.

     

    Illegal bats are simply removed from the game, when they are discovered. Not outs, or other punishments.

     

    If the home team takes the lead, and there is still time on the clock, the game should continue. The visitors should be allowed to attempt to record three outs before the bell rings. Barring any local rules stating otherwise, the game should have continued.

     

    If all the umpires on the field were under the age 18, LL requires a Game Coordinator to supervise the game. This adult would be ruling on things, such as these, as needed.

     

    That said, if a protest was not put in the books before the umpires had left the field, this game is over.

     

    p.s. 8 year old players and very important game are mutually exclusive. When your kids get older you'll understand, and have a laugh about how serious you're taking this game now. Trust me on this. Enjoy 'em while they're little, as it goes by pretty quickly.

  • Mason_Dixon_Blue Legend 250 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Jun 2, 2011 8:26 AM (in response to 4 my 2 Boys)
    Re: Illegal bat/End of game

    No penalty (if there even is one was applied). The umps are HS kids and some better then others I understand they are learning as well.  She did however remove the bat from the game.

     

    The umpire did quite well.  There is no penalty in Little League for using an illegal bat.  The bat is simply removed from the game.

     

     

    Is there a rule saying we MUST play two hours or six innings.

    Baseball is not a timed sport.  If your leage implemented a time limit on games, only they can answer how to end the game under these conditions.

  • joes87 Expert 46 posts since
    Nov 24, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Jun 2, 2011 8:39 AM (in response to 4 my 2 Boys)
    Re: Illegal bat/End of game

    "

    p.s. 8 year old players and very important game are mutually  exclusive. When your kids get older you'll understand, and have a laugh  about how serious you're taking this game now. Trust me on this. Enjoy  'em while they're little, as it goes by pretty quickly.:"

    +1 to that comment.

     

    Every once in a while I will wonder down towards out Rookie (generally 8-9 YO's or our minor games (9-11 YO's) and it amazes me at how worked up the parents get compared to our major parents.  Even worst when compared to the older level (16-18 YO) kids.   I have a 16 YO son who is now umping.  He hates to do the rookie games.  Not because they are long and tedious but because the parents are PITA’s.  He does everything he can to avoid those games.  I find it amusing that a 16 YO gets it and a lot of the parents don’t.

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Jun 3, 2011 1:29 PM (in response to Lou_B)
    Re: Illegal bat/End of game

    Adding to Lou's comment, and the subject in general.

     

    From experience----always make it clear before the game starts, as to whose time-piece will be used for the official time as to when a new inning starts.

    Most will say it's the umpire's time-piece..... and his/her call.

    That's fine, no problem with that,  but tell all concerned-[both managers]--up-front!

     

    Too many times-[no pun intended]--I have seen occasions when a manager "protested" because his time-piece was not in sync with the umpire's time-piece; and opined (heatedly) that the game should go another inning; or conversely, should be stopped.  

     

    Frank!

  • MyTwoSons Community Moderator 224 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Jun 4, 2011 10:35 AM (in response to Frank_B)
    Re: Illegal bat/End of game

    Frank_B wrote:

     

    Adding to Lou's comment, and the subject in general.

     

    From experience----always make it clear before the game starts, as to whose time-piece will be used for  official time as to when a new inning starts.

    Most will say it's the umpire's time-piece..... and his/her call.

    That's fine, no problem with that,  but tell all concerned-[both managers]--up-front!

     

    Too many times-[no pun intended]--I have seen occasions when a manager "protested" because his time-piece was not in sync with the umpire's time-piece; and opined (heatedly) that the game should go another inning; or conversely, should be stopped.  

     

    Frank!

     

    That is why I always ask the umpire what his official start time is and compare to my time, even when there is no time limit.  I use my phone as my time piece which usually matches the atomic clock program that I sync my computer to.  In the last game when I synced with the umpire, his time piece said 5:00 while mine was at 5:03.

     

    A few years ago a home team saw an 8 run lead cut down to 1 run and after a 3 and out bottom of the 5th and 2 minutes left on No New Inning time limit, they insisted that time had lapsed and that there would be no new inning.  They refused to take the field and were packing up to leave until the umpire warned them that they were abandoning the game and would lose by forfeit.  They took the field under protest.  They lost the protest and they lost the game. 

  • Mike_CVUA Legend 593 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Jun 6, 2011 9:10 AM (in response to 4 my 2 Boys)
    Re: Illegal bat/End of game

    I never have a watch.  Two main reasons - a)  we tell the players they cannot wear jewelry, so how could the umpire wearing a watch be any less dangerous?  b)  If you are looking at the watch all the time, then you are sending the subliminal message that your mind is NOT in the game, and you'd rather be someplace else!

     

    I agree that if you have timed games, you need to agree at the plate conference whose watch will constitute offical time.  (I would opine that the person designated the official scorer should be that person.)  For better or worse, whatever that person's watch says matters.

     

    Hold the plate conference 5 minutes before game time.  If someone is still on the field, get them off.  It's time to play! Then once you do get the game started, do not tolerate unnecessary delays.  Only give the pitcher a minute to warm up (if he has already pitched in the game).  If the team wants to have choir practice or a pizza party between innings that's OK with me, but when I say "Let's have a batter!" we are playing ball, and I don't care if the pitcher even gets no warmups.

     

    Toss a fresh ball to the pitcher after a foul ball and have the catcher hand you the other one.  This will add up to a lot of seconds, and then minutes, saved.  It creates a flow to the game that allows play to progress steadily.

     

    Do not tolerate LONG visits.  As soon as the manager gets to the mound, mark your book that a visit has taken place, dust off the plate, and the start walking to the mound.  If he gets crabby with you, tell him the (at least in LL), the rulebook does specify ejection as a penalty for delay of game.  While it is not illegal, make note of the fact of constant pitching changes that take extra time as well;  the BOD might be calling to get your take on it.

     

    I personally hate timed games, but I have seasons where we had to compress the time slots to make up for rainouts.  Everybody has to cooperate; if they are not, they are the ones who will scream the loudest when you have to make a tough decision on the timing.

     

    JMO.


    Mike CVUA

  • MyTwoSons Community Moderator 224 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Jun 6, 2011 9:47 AM (in response to Mike_CVUA)
    Re: Illegal bat/End of game

    When I keep score, I am not going to argue with the Ump whose watch I'm going to use as the official time.

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