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1111 Views 5 Replies Latest reply: Jul 27, 2011 7:14 PM by Mike_CVUA RSS
bluefarmhouse Rookie 4 posts since
Jan 14, 2008
Currently Being Moderated

Jul 25, 2011 8:58 PM

Intentional walks

What's the latest ruling on intentional walks using illegal pitches to accomplish them?  I was understood it was not allowed and pitchers were warned and managers ejected for continuing this practice.  I know the illegal pitches count on the pitch count but the runners have no chance to advance since the ball is not pitched.  I cannot find the appropriate section in the book or even in the RIM so far.  I'm being told bu other umps that this is not true and show me in the book if it is!  My best to everyone doing tournament games curently - some great baseball as usual being played now! 

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Jul 26, 2011 8:03 AM (in response to bluefarmhouse)
    Re: Intentional walks

    I'm not sure I am addressing your specific IW scenario, but a declared illegal pitch thrown is not a dead ball situation; and if a baserunner legally steals the next base-[a play]- when a declared illegal pitch is called, the offensive manager has the option of (immediarely) accepting the play, negating the applicable penalty re the illegal pitch.

     

    Above might also apply when an illegal pitch is declared in those instances when the violation is committed while the pitcher, with the ball, is not in contact with the pitcher's plate....and speedy Gonzolez takes off (successfully) for the next base.  [illegal pitch NOT thrown, as noted in your scenario]

     

    Frank!

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Jul 26, 2011 8:01 AM (in response to bluefarmhouse)
    Re: Intentional walks

    The pitches need to be thrown.

    If the Umpire thinks the pitcher is using "Illegal Pitches" as a means of trying to intentionally walk a batter, the Umpire should "warn" the pitcher and if another Illegal Pitch happens it's ejection time.

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Jul 26, 2011 10:53 AM (in response to bluefarmhouse)
    Re: Intentional walks

    Let me try it this way. 

     

    As the rules allow

    1)---An offensive play may occur AFTER an illegal pitch is declared. See: PENALTY under Rule 8.05(k)---page 91, 2011 rulebook. That tells us that the ball is STILL alive on ALL declared illegal pitches.

     

    2)--"The  pitcher, without having the ball, stands on or ASTRIDE the pitcher's plate or while off the plate FEINTS a pitch."  Rule 8.05(i)---->quoted!  page 91! Apply that to your situation involving a intentional walk.

    That tells us an illegal pitch can be declared WITH NO BALL THROWN TO THE BATTER.   [your scenario]

     

    3)--Given agreeing with #1 & 2 above.  With time still "in" and "live ball"---a baserunner has the opportunity---WITH RISK---to advance a base.

    If successful, by rule, page 91,  an offensive manager may opt to take the base advance play, and "pass" on the illegal pitch penalty.

     

    Using current wording in the LL rulebook--- your comment re "pitches not thrown and hence no possible runner advancement"... goes poof!

     

     

    Frank!

  • Mike_CVUA Legend 592 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Jul 27, 2011 7:14 PM (in response to Lou_B)
    Re: Intentional walks

    Amen, Lou!

     

    Part of this is the fact that the pitcher might throw a wild pitch and the runners may attempt to advance.

     

    I think in the NCAA a few years ago, the pitcher was giving an IBB, and the catcher came out early!  A balk was called, and the game-ending run scored.

     

    So it IS incumbent upon the defense to execute this properly.

     

    In OBR, an illegal pitch (with men on) is a balk, so there is no advantage,  But in 60' LL, it's an IP, and a ball would normally be added.  So the notion of 4 IPs meant that the offense could have their cake and eat it too!  Not allowed by rules any more!

     

    Mike CVUA

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