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5834 Views 40 Replies Latest reply: Aug 27, 2011 3:18 PM by Phillieball 1 2 3 Previous Next
Mike_CVUA Legend 593 posts since
May 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Aug 22, 2011 12:36 PM

Head First Slide

Canada vs Chinese Tapei:

 

R3 tries to score on a PB/WP.  Whether or not the runner was out on the play was a close call!  But the PU called R3 out for head-first slide!

 

Great call!  PU signaled it immediately!  No question about it.

 

Anyone ever have one out there in Reg Season play?  Do you kill the ball and then rule?  If the out was made normally, would you still kill it and call it?  Or would you let it play on?

 

Cheers!

 

Mike CVUA

  • NELL_blue Legend 303 posts since
    May 21, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Aug 22, 2011 12:50 PM (in response to Mike_CVUA)
    Re: Head First Slide

    I'm watching too!!   She has made some great calls and decisions today. Great having a TV in the office with cable!!   

     

    I called it once this year, and I let the play go on after. Call the out and play on, no need in my opinion to kill it!

     

     

    Just watched the SHOT of a homer over the camera stand!!  WOW!





    Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!

  • Bearblue Pro 66 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Aug 22, 2011 12:58 PM (in response to Mike_CVUA)
    Re: Head First Slide

    Runner is out the moment the umpire observes the head-first slide. Ball remains alive.   per RIM

  • Bearblue Pro 66 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Aug 22, 2011 1:02 PM (in response to Bearblue)
    Re: Head First Slide

    In my Regional in 2008, it was the first call I had. B/R is stretching a double into a triple and hits the bag just before the ball gets there.

    I shake my head and as I am raising my arm to hammer the out, the 3rd base coach tells the runner "son, you are fix'n to be called out for sliding head first".

  • Phillieball Pro 99 posts since
    Mar 23, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Aug 22, 2011 8:03 PM (in response to Bearblue)
    Re: Head First Slide

    Since this topic came up, I'll ask a question I've been wondering since a LL District championship "If" game we hosted a few years ago.

     

    If the runner goes in head-first and the umpire doesn't call it, can/would another umpire call it or get it called somehow?  Can a manager ask the umpire to ask for help, or is that arguing safe/out?

     

    The situation was bottom of 6th, home team down 1-0 with two outs, four umpire crew.  The batter hits a line shot that F9 fields on a bounce with his back up against the fence.  BR heads to second and the throw appears to be there in time, but is head high to F4.  The BR takes off from the freethrow line, so to speak, and dives head-first into the bag.  The second base umpire calls him safe.

     

    Up in the booth we're going nuts because the head-first slide should have been the third out with our arch-rival neighboring league being knocked out.  However, the first pitch to the next batter is hammered over the fence and they win the District instead.

     

    After the game, we asked around and none of the umpires had realized what had happened.  One chalked it up to doing more 90' than 60' so it didn't register.  We didn't have the heart to ask the defensive manager.

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Aug 22, 2011 9:27 PM (in response to Phillieball)
    Re: Head First Slide

    If it wasn't called it's a rule misinterpretation and protestable.

     

    Why didn't you alert your manager?

  • Phillieball Pro 99 posts since
    Mar 23, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Aug 22, 2011 10:19 PM (in response to Rich_Ives)
    Re: Head First Slide

    We were hosting and I was the official scorer upstairs in the booth behind home plate.  I didn't think it was my place to say anything.  Should I have said something as if it were along the lines of a substitution violation?

     

    If an umpire other than the one making the call had realized it was a head first slide, could he/she call it directly?  Ask for a conference and tell B2 what he/she saw?

  • NELL_blue Legend 303 posts since
    May 21, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Aug 23, 2011 4:23 AM (in response to Mike_CVUA)
    Re: Head First Slide

    Adding to this thread for some other head first action!

     

    So is a kid out for head first slide if diving head first back to first, second or third base in an apparent pick off play?

    R1 takes a substantial lead after passed ball, F2 throws down and R1 dives back in toward 1st head first?

     

    http://media.lehighvalleylive.com/sports_impact/photo/american-legion-baseball-dive-into-plate-43433b88155c0db3_large.jpg





    Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!

  • Bearblue Pro 66 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Aug 23, 2011 5:18 AM (in response to NELL_blue)
    Re: Head First Slide

    If runner is retreating back to a base, a head-first slide is legal.  The rule only applies if advancing.

  • TheMouth__1 Legend 917 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Aug 23, 2011 5:19 AM (in response to NELL_blue)
    Re: Head First Slide

    I believe the true interpretation of the rule is a BR advancing not retreating to base.  Why?.....I don't know.   TM

  • Bearblue Pro 66 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Aug 23, 2011 5:23 AM (in response to Phillieball)
    Re: Head First Slide

    As a game official in the booth (or not in the booth), NOT your place to alert a team to a missed call.

     

    Stopping an illegal substitution is part of the job of the scorekeeper, so the two are totally different issues.

       -BTW,  stopping a batting out of order is NOT part of the scorekeeper's job.

  • John in Atl Pro 79 posts since
    Mar 26, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Aug 23, 2011 6:05 AM (in response to Mike_CVUA)
    Re: Head First Slide

    My most memorable one was in 2002 District in Fort Worth, TX.  Many of you may remember the FW Westside team that eventually played in the US finals against Louisville in an 11 inning gem of a game.  Walker Kelly, who was the outstanding lefthanded pitcher Westside had, hit what would have been an inside the park homerun, except he came into home head first.  Realizing what he had done, he showed me one of the most winning smiles I have ever seen on a Little Leaguer.  Unfortunately, I had to bang him out.  But I will never forget the smile.

     

    That said, I see more head first slides out of the kids who play travel ball elsewhere and forget where they are playing.  Same seems to be true for leaving a base early.

     

    Your question is a good one, Mike.  Ball does stay alive.  I think of a situation where you have R1 heading into second on an infield ground ball.  If head first slides caused the ball to be dead, I think coaches might soon learn to have R1 go in head first to kill a possilbe double play.

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Aug 23, 2011 7:35 AM (in response to Rich_Ives)
    Re: Head First Slide

    But gotta remember it's still basically an ump's judgment call as to whether it was a "stumble or trip" or outright head-first slide.

     

    Have seen what could of been calls either way----one or two in the current LLWS games.

     

    In Little League the rule (restriction) only applies to Majors and below; which some umps and managers tend to forget.

     

    Frank!

  • NELL_blue Legend 303 posts since
    May 21, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Aug 23, 2011 1:09 PM (in response to NELL_blue)
    Re: Head First Slide

    Just the answer I was looking for!!

     

    So lets take R1 and put him at first.  He steals on a passed ball and head firsts it into 2nd. Out, simple. But let's suppose he is heading to second and the catcher tosses a bullet and the runner stops and runs back to first and goes in with a head firt slide? Not advancing, but safe?

     

    This can be fun!!!        





    Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    14. Aug 23, 2011 1:21 PM (in response to TheMouth__1)
    Re: Head First Slide

    TM:

     

    I believe  the "accepted" explanation being a runner gathers  more momentum when advancing, thus more likely to suffer an injury. But we have all seen (some) runners attempting to return to a base at "full tilt".....in a slide. leading with his head, arms outstretched.

     

    Frank!

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