BIG topic and considering I am sitting in a hotel lobby, I'll keep it short

The primary advantage of HR training IMHO is to keep you from getting hurt.

Huh?

ok, here is my logic

assumption:
1. most people overtrain or undertrain, if left to their own devices
2. most people who overtrain, get injured.
3. most people who go all out, all the time, are gonna poop out at the end of the long races unless they are some kind of genetic freak (i.e. lance)

now, here is the short list of the zones. read the descriptions, but in short most training for long stuff is Z2. Then you do some Z3/4 near the mid/end of the cycle as "prep" for racing conditions and to get your body used to it. Since you have quoted Joe Friel a lot, I bet there is a section in there, but honestly I like the Sally Edwards books - its a foo foo writing style, but she has some solid science and logic behind it

Training Zones

Zone 1 Active Recovery (Zn1)
This is the easiest and slowest training. The goal is to promote recovery by increasing blood flow to the
muscles without incurring additional fatigue. The benefits of Zn1 are more of a function of the time spent
training, rather than the intensity.
% MHR: 60-65
Rating of Perceived Exertion (RPE): Very, Very Light
Zone 2 Endurance (Zn2)
This training makes up the bulk of an endurance athletes training program. Intensity is low enough to allow
for long workouts that push the limits of endurance. Lactate production is low, as is breathing rate.
% MHR: 65-70
RPE: Very Light to Fairly Light
Zone 3 Steady State / Light Tempo (Zn3)
This intensity is slightly higher than Zn2, but is still below threshold. This zone is used in early season in
preparation for threshold intensities, and to vary pace in long aerobic workouts.
% MHR: 70-80
RPE: Somewhat Hard
Zone 4 Threshold (Zn4)
This intensity is just at lactate threshold. The aerobic system is highly stressed at this intensity, and
improvements occur in lactate tolerance and velocity at threshold.
% MHR: 80-85
RPE: Hard
Zone 5 Aerobic Power (Zn5)
This intensity is performed above the lactate threshold. Lactate tolerance is highly stressed, and the
durations are short, usually less than ~ 4 minutes. This intensity is also named ?intervals? in running. The
recovery between intervals is performed at Zn1.
% MHR: 86+
RPE: Very Hard
Zone 6 Anaerobic Power (Zn6)
This intensity involves controlled intense exertions for brief periods (i.e. seconds). Recoveries are long
between reps. This intensity is used for race specific economy, with the focus on good form at high speeds.
This is intensity is an all out sprint effort.
RPE: Very Fast, but controlled

From a coach's perspective...

HR does all the things mantioned above, but it does so much more. So many little things that the "average" guy doesn't know and really, doesn't need to know.

Early season things like increase capilaries, increase in golgi apparatus, increase in CO2 clearance. Late season things like increase in VO2 max, Increase LT/AT, Ability to stay in a higher zone longer.

The thing about HR zones and training is the testing and the communication betweent he coach and athlete. the coach can crunch the numbers and post the athletes zones, but the athlete has to comunincate back to the coach how they feel when in those zones.

Examples:
Athlete A: Athlete A is doing interval sessions where the athlete is doing longer sets of AT training (A later season workout.) The athlete is supposed to stay in zone high 3, low 4 for the entire lt session, say 8 minutes. Athlete A reports back to the coach that no matter how hard he tries, he cannot get into zone 4. His legs tire and he just does not have it.

The coach has a couple choices.
1) The athleles zones are set to high and the coach is asking the athlete to work to hard.
2) The athlete is overtrained.
3) The athlete is dogging it.

Athelte B: Athlete B is doing a long ride on Saturday and is told to stay in zone 2. He is told that it is OK to have your HR climb during the climbs, but should try and get back to zone 2 within a few minutes of the increased exertion. The athlete does the workout and reports back to the coach that he was having trouble staying in the aero position and that he was having a hard time keeping his HR lowno matter how slow he went.

The coach has a couple choices.
1) The athlete has improved enough to warrant retesting.
2) The athlete is a super human and only wants to train at race pace.
3) The coach has set the numbers to low.

These are real examples. Both of these athletes are mine and this what I did.

Athlete A: He reported to me that he could not get his HR into an LT. I spoke with the athete and looked at his log. I looked back at what he had been doing and if he had been able to get into the zone prior and if he was able to stay there. In the past he was able to get into the zone and spend time there. he had been reporting poor sleeping habits for the last few days and his log was FULL of workouts. He was clearly overtrained. He was given 2 days completely off and 3 days off reduced workouts. He has since retested and is happy with the new numbers. This athlete will find himslef on the podium a lot this year.

Athelte B: Athlete B called me on saturday afternoon and told me that he almost fell off his bike and that he felt like he wasted a whole day. Again I looked back at his schedule and noticed that he had complained about hte same type of thing prior. (I originally thought he was a superhuman.) However after this latest workout we decided that he needed an increase in HR zones. He was increased 5 beats in each zone and has been reporting good workouts. He has not retested as he is in a build phase and I do not want to interupt it. He will retest in 2 weeks. I want to mention that his increase was because of his willingness to stay in those zones. He test fantastic and his numbers were right when he started but has increase his fitness so fast that retesting every week is pointless.

The season is early and it is crucial, especially on the bike to set your numbers and follow them. Of course this is only important if you want to have a good season.

Sheldon

Sorry for the typos and spelling errors, I'm at work and don't have time to proof read this.

Some good things here. Also, check out all the posts in "Basebuilding, low heart rate training, a la Maffetone and Mark Allen."

HR = Heart Rate

However, there are some issues/differences in the way to compute your max and zones. However, in the end they are saying the same thing.

I don't know the names, but in the traditional zones they would be outlined like above and your month/qtr/season/year would have cyclical patterns in which you vary your training.

Since I do have a coach, I haven't gone too nuts understand why/when for each but the GENERAL things I do get are (for endurance folk - and it's not sport specific):
1. Lots of your time is in Z2 - Aerobic - conversational, easy to hold for hours, and easy to recover time. You're teaching your body to burn fat, you're burning calories, you are imprinting your muscles with the patterns you will need later in the harder stuff.
2. As race season starts, more Z3 pops into it and moves you closer to LT, but without the damage of Z4 or the "I'm going so slow factor" of Z2.
3. Limited but consistant use of Z4 to push LT upwards ovre time. Much harder on you, so shorter intervals of course this stuff takes a long time to recover from.

There is also the Maffetone camp, which does virtually all time in Z2 except race day (if I understand it right). i'm not a huge fan of that because I am one of those people who if I train slow always, I will simply be slow. Race day isn't going to change that for me, I have no natural talent.

The people with natural athletic ability tend (IMHO) to spend lots of time Z3/Z4. And because they recover fast (part of the "natural" ability comment..) they are ok. For those with NO natural ability, they spend time in Z4 they break, quick. So they have to have a real slow curve into it. When I started "running" I spent MOST of my time in Z1. And it took me a Loooong time to recover. A 3 mile Z1 run, 2 years ago, would take me a good 3 days to recover from. Using RPE I had "2" settings. I was a "1" - easy or "10" - I'm gonna die. There was nothing in the middle. That took lots of time.

So in my opinion, HR training is PARAMOUNT for those with no natural ability or experience (or in my case, both). It can certainly benefit the naturals or experienced athletes, BUT it's going to be REAL frustrating. They already know how to listen to their body and can peg RPE with incredible accuracy. Coming into my 4th season I can now tell you my HR within 5beats without looking, most days.

Hope this helps

quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidD:

Not an accurate statement. The "slower" pace could be much faster than when you started. I went from 9:50 miles in that aerobic zone you mention, to about 7:30 after a few aerobic base periods over a few winters (along with a corresponding improvement in race times). Please read the "basebuilding, low heart rate training a la Maffetone and Allen" in the "Basic Training" forum.<HR>

Yup, I fully admit I do not fully understand Maff strategies and results.

Once I started some occasional speed work (and Z4 work), my times started dropping pretty quickly. Was it weight loss? (235 now, 250's last year, 275+ the prior) Was it aerobic fitness? Was it muscular strength? The answer is probably "yup" to all.

When I get some time, I really should learn more about Maff... I'll add that to the todo...

Just wear your heart monitor in a 5K and see what kind of values you are getting. If you run some shorter sprint of say 200 m all out or really push a hill to the point where you have a stop at the top, you are close to your max HR, maybe a few beats shy. The formulas really are not worth much.

When you run a race of say an hour duration, the hr you settle into is somewhere around your current anaerobic threshold, assuming you are pushing hard enough that you are spanked at the end. You should sustain a somewhat higher HR for a 5 mile race. Your tempo should be done at or a bit below the hr you had for the 10 mile race, but as you train that value should increase. Your max will stay static and decrease as you age, AT is trainable.

Thanks! That helps. I'm not sure I'll have my HRM by the weekend. I think it was getting here next week. Oh, well. I can figure it out by doing my own "race", though. I figured the formulas weren't worth much. I think my max is around 194 or so, which would correspond to the 226 formula for women. It isn't hard for me to push myself to the limit. I was doing that too much, which is why I'm going to do HR training. I have also been injury free since I started. I can't say that for my DH. He tried to train for a HM in 3 months (he wasn't running before that), so he hurt his knee. It is better now because he has slowed down some. I have a friend that recently did the same thing training for this 5K. She just pushed herself too hard. She and I are going to do some HR training together. That should be fun. We run the same speed right now with about the same effort, so I bet we are close. We're running the 5K together. We only run together maybe once a week, then the rest is usually on the TM because we both have young kids.

Again, thanks for the tips. I like to see people who have such success with HR training. Right now, my HR is around 150 when running 11:00/mile. That's about all I know. I used to barely be able to race at that speed (during the HM). Now, I can easily race at a 9:00/mile. I'd love to increase that through HR training.