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9138 Views 13 Replies Latest reply: Jun 6, 2014 3:30 PM by jsimms435
jsimms435 Amateur 15 posts since
Aug 8, 2012
Currently Being Moderated

May 28, 2014 11:28 AM

10k training

I have been running for most of the last two years.  I just completed my second 10k in April with a time of 1:03.  I would love to break an hour.  I did that, but it was back in my 20's and I am now almost 47.

I try to run the 10k distance at least two times a week to try and get use to it.  So far, I get really worn out by the time I nearly get to 4 miles and then I walk some.   I just can't seem to do better where I can run the whole thing.  In April, I walked a lot of the 10k to complete it and it was a pretty hilly course.

 

Sometimes I feel like I am overdoing it and worry about injury since I was on the treadmill training up until fairly recently.  It is hilly in the part of NC where I live.  I figured if I was going to be in road races I had better start training outside.  What is the best way to build up your base?  Just keep going that distance until your body gets use to it?  I don't want to injure myself, but my next 10k is in a month and want to be ready and frustrated that I am still walking too much.

  • shipo Legend 496 posts since
    Aug 9, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. May 28, 2014 12:11 PM (in response to jsimms435)
    Re: 10k training

    The very best way to build your base, avoid injury, and improve your 10K (and 5K and half marathon) times is to slow down a bit and run further.

     

    Were it that I was coaching you, I would recommend the following:

    • Starting with your current level of conditioning, run 4 miles every other day at a comfortable pace.
    • After a couple of weeks bump your every-other-day mileage to 4.5 miles, and then a few weeks later, bump it to 5, and then 5.5 and then 6 (or 6.2 if you prefer).
    • Once you are comfortable with running 20+ miles per week on average, then you can start adding in either an extra day here and there (as in back-to-back days) or some longer weekend runs upwards of 10+ miles.
    • Once you're running 25+ miles per week, you have two basic options, either to introduce some speed work or to extend your runs even further.  I would advise the latter as it will aid in continuing to build your base, lower your race times, and keep your risk of injury as low as possible.  By this point you should be able to run a 10K in under an hour with relative ease.

     

    A few side comments:

    • Some folks believe they need to train fast to race fast; nothing could be further from the truth, errr, at least until one is knocking on the back door of the elite runners in their age group (which for you would be in the low 40 minute range).
    • Lots of Long Slow Distance (LSD) has been proven to be highly effective at improving race times at pretty much any distance; this is especially for us old farts trying to get back into shape (BTW, I'm 10 years older than you).
    • FWIW, I typically train in the 9:00-10:00 per mile pace range, and yet I'm able to run a 10K in the 45:00-47:00 range (depending upon the course), and just recently broke the 22:00 threshold in a 5K on a hilly course.




    Fat old man PRs:

    • 1-mile (point to point, gravity assist): 5:50
    • 2-mile: 13:49
    • 5K (gravity assist last mile): 21:31
    • 5-Mile: 37:24
    • 10K (first 10K of my Half Marathon): 48:16
    • 10-Mile (first 10 miles of my Half Marathon): 1:17:40
    • Half Marathon: 1:42:13
  • hammer4321 Amateur 31 posts since
    Apr 3, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. May 28, 2014 1:34 PM (in response to jsimms435)
    Re: 10k training

    Still a beginner runner (quickly approaching 50 YO) and I can vouch for the suggestion to not just run short and hard.  First 10K I ran I took that approach, trained to get times down but didn't incorporate any runs longer than 10K and never went "slow".  Was very happy with my time of just over 53:30 but the last 8-10 minutes were real tough, and I also paid for it with a stress fracture.

     

    Been training for an HM and while my training pace is now more like 10:00 to 11:00 (or more on long runs) I don't feel like I'm beating myself up anywhere near as much.

  • crl8686 Legend 1,306 posts since
    Nov 11, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Jun 1, 2014 6:05 PM (in response to jsimms435)
    10k training

    You mention it is hilly where you live. Instead of using the treadmill (at what I'd assume is low or no incline), how about instead running outside and using the hills as training tools. They are excellent for building leg strength (which equates to increased speed). You can also accommodate hills as part of a routine workout, if you run them at constant effort - slow down for the ascent and then speed up for the descent. There are lots of articles on the Web on maintaining good form and body position for both uphill and downhill.

     

    Also, if your race will have hills, you need to be training on them in order to do your best in the race. If you know where the hills are on the course, even better - you can plan for them and adjust your pace during the race as needed to accommodate them.





    2014 highlights...

    @ 5K: Angels Baseball Foundation 5K, Anaheim, CA, 24:15

    Friends of the Villa Park Library 5K, Villa Park, CA, 24:10

    Coronado Independence Day 5K, Coronado, CA, 24:36

    @ 10K: LA Chinatown Firecracker Run, Los Angeles, CA, 51:44

    Great Race of Agoura - Old Agoura 10K, Agoura Hills, CA, 50:31

    Fiesta Days Run, La Canada, CA, 50:29


  • shipo Legend 496 posts since
    Aug 9, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Jun 1, 2014 6:56 PM (in response to crl8686)
    Re: 10k training

    crl8686 wrote:

     

    You can also accommodate hills as part of a routine workout, if you run them at constant effort - slow down for the ascent and then speed up for the descent.

    Funny thing about being "old", I'm 57, and doing hill work in training versus hills in races...

     

    Before I get to the above point I need to say this, I do 90+ percent of my training on one of two different trails, the first is a "Rail Trail" where it generally climbs roughly 100' per mile as I head east, and then works its way back downhill when I turn around, the second trail is a 9 mile loop which is pretty much a non-stop hill drill.

     

    When I was young(er) I would do hills pretty much as you wrote, but now that I'm "old", I find that when I run  the rail trail my pace is very similar regardless of whether I'm going up or down, however, on my hilly trail, I usually attack on the way up and throttle it way-WAY back on the way down the other side.  Why?  The consequences of a misstep (on a rock or root or rut, or any other "R" word) on the way up are pretty minimal, even at speed, however, on the other side it is utter ankle suicide to go bun-huggin' it down the hills.  Even on the rare occasion when I train on roads or other smooth surfaces, I take it easy on the way down simply because it freakin' hurts my knees and hips to run down at any speed above a jog but less than flat out.  That brings me to the second part of my initial comment, when I'm racing, typically on pavement, I'm going all out and it doesn't hurt to "go all out" on the way down.





    Fat old man PRs:

    • 1-mile (point to point, gravity assist): 5:50
    • 2-mile: 13:49
    • 5K (gravity assist last mile): 21:31
    • 5-Mile: 37:24
    • 10K (first 10K of my Half Marathon): 48:16
    • 10-Mile (first 10 miles of my Half Marathon): 1:17:40
    • Half Marathon: 1:42:13
  • lenzlaw Community Moderator 10,413 posts since
    Jan 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Jun 1, 2014 7:09 PM (in response to shipo)
    Re: 10k training

    Going harder on the uphill and easy on the downhill is actually good training, making the hills similar to interval training.  I do hills like this regularly and it helps a lot in a hilly race.  The only exception I can think of on the downhill part is if you are specifically training for a race with a lot of downhills - like the St. George Marathon, which is point-to-point with a net downhill of a couple thousand feet.





    Len

  • shipo Legend 496 posts since
    Aug 9, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Jun 1, 2014 7:16 PM (in response to lenzlaw)
    Re: 10k training

    Thanks Len, never quite thought about it that way.  A couple thousand feet?  Yikes, what are the winning times like, 1:45? 





    Fat old man PRs:

    • 1-mile (point to point, gravity assist): 5:50
    • 2-mile: 13:49
    • 5K (gravity assist last mile): 21:31
    • 5-Mile: 37:24
    • 10K (first 10K of my Half Marathon): 48:16
    • 10-Mile (first 10 miles of my Half Marathon): 1:17:40
    • Half Marathon: 1:42:13
  • lenzlaw Community Moderator 10,413 posts since
    Jan 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Jun 1, 2014 7:18 PM (in response to jsimms435)
    Re: 10k training

    Also, shipo's thoughts of gradually increasing distance, at a comfortable pace, is spot on for getting to the point of running the whole distance. You don't mention how long your typical runs are (the non-10K runs), but assuming they are at least 3 miles, you shouldn't be "really worn out" by 4 miles unless you're just going too fast.  So consider slowing down some and increasing distance.





    Len

  • lenzlaw Community Moderator 10,413 posts since
    Jan 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Jun 1, 2014 7:32 PM (in response to shipo)
    Re: 10k training

    St. George, Utah. Start elevation is 5240, mile 25 is 2771.  It's popular as a Boston qualifier.   But that much downhill is hard on the quads (I think it's the quads) and other leg muscles that don't get as much use in most running.





    Len

  • shipo Legend 496 posts since
    Aug 9, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Jun 1, 2014 7:50 PM (in response to lenzlaw)
    Re: 10k training

    The quads make sense, I did a very rugged 4.4 mile mountain hike yesterday (and have the sore quads to prove it) and the eccentric contraction nature of muscle use when going downhill is really hard on the quads when you're not used to doing that much "down".





    Fat old man PRs:

    • 1-mile (point to point, gravity assist): 5:50
    • 2-mile: 13:49
    • 5K (gravity assist last mile): 21:31
    • 5-Mile: 37:24
    • 10K (first 10K of my Half Marathon): 48:16
    • 10-Mile (first 10 miles of my Half Marathon): 1:17:40
    • Half Marathon: 1:42:13
  • crl8686 Legend 1,306 posts since
    Nov 11, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Jun 2, 2014 6:39 PM (in response to lenzlaw)
    10k training

    lenzlaw wrote:

     

    Going harder on the uphill and easy on the downhill is actually good training, making the hills similar to interval training.  I do hills like this regularly and it helps a lot in a hilly race. 

    Definitely true, and I do that periodically (especially since I'd rather run hills than run intervals, LOL). But I do live in a neighborhood which is almost entirely rolling hills with very little flat ground. If I pushed hard on the uphills during every run, I'd be doing hill training multiple times per week





    2014 highlights...

    @ 5K: Angels Baseball Foundation 5K, Anaheim, CA, 24:15

    Friends of the Villa Park Library 5K, Villa Park, CA, 24:10

    Coronado Independence Day 5K, Coronado, CA, 24:36

    @ 10K: LA Chinatown Firecracker Run, Los Angeles, CA, 51:44

    Great Race of Agoura - Old Agoura 10K, Agoura Hills, CA, 50:31

    Fiesta Days Run, La Canada, CA, 50:29


  • AndiBaker Rookie 1 posts since
    Feb 18, 2014
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Jun 4, 2014 2:29 PM (in response to jsimms435)
    Re: 10k training

    I am running my frst 10k in July and I usually run on the street but I was wondering if running on the readmill to help pick up my pace a bit was a good idea or not? I live in Souh Texas and it is all ready 90 plus degrees here and I run in the evenings.

  • lenzlaw Community Moderator 10,413 posts since
    Jan 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Jun 5, 2014 8:12 AM (in response to AndiBaker)
    10k training

    To AndiBaker,

     

    It really depends on how you use the treadmill.  But you can get the same results doing a tempo run once a week on the road.  Warm up for a mile, run at something just a little slower then 10K pace for 20 minutes, then cool down for a mile.  If you want to work on form with some speed, add "strides" to the end of one of your regular runs. These are short pickups of 50 to 100 meters at maybe 5K pace, with plenty of rest in between.  Start with 3 or 4 and add 1 each time you do them.





    Len

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