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8891 Views 90 Replies Latest reply: Jan 10, 2009 9:02 AM by Cruns4fun RSS Go to original post 1 2 3 4 ... 7 Previous Next
  • Jim Sullivan032 Rookie 504 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    15. Sep 6, 2007 2:47 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    quote:


    Originally posted by willamona:

    On race day, I usually pass the Gallow-walkers several times.


     

    Funny, I never see them at all.

  • AKTrail Rookie 360 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    16. Sep 6, 2007 2:53 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    Since in Galloway's 1984(?) book, he specifically mentioned getting the run/walk idea from Osler, for curiosity awhile ago, I poked around and found Osler's home page. Note the 1973 and 1976 entries, but it's also interesting reading the entire page:

    http://tinyurl.com/2vmpge[/URL" target="_blank">
    "Xx/xx/73 Ed Dodd and I begin researching the performances of old time pedestrians. ... These events peaked about 1888....We learn the importance of mixing walking with running."

    "12/09/76 First 24 Hour Run on Rowan University Track. Cover 114 miles with a rhythm of running seven laps and walking one. First evidence that running and walking properly enables one to double the distance one could go by running steady."

    quote:


    Originally posted by Nobby:

    One thing I always felt is that, if you're running with your HR of, say, 160 or so (and feeling comfortable) and abruptly stop and start walking, your HR would quickly drop down to, say, 80. Your legs are still warm and needing blood supply but, because your HR drops so much, it won't be able to supply enough blood; this COULD cause stiff legs. Once again, this wouldn't be as big of a problem if you are going much slower, but I always felt this could be an issue if you're going a bit faster. Another thing is; I know those who believe walking break might say that, with walking break, they can run the running section faster.


     



    I'm not sure how Gallowalk is actually done but am going to use that term to distinguish it from run/power hike in trails and ultras. "Walk with purpose" is sometimes used, i.e. people aren't lolligagging. How fast your HR drops will depend on your conditioning, and actual values will depend on max HR, resting HR, time running, etc. From the slow end of the spectrum, if I'm going from a normal run (about 135 bpm for me, 63% HRR, 75% max HR) to a walk at end of run (small hill), mine may drop to about 120 in a minute, lower and faster if I stop completely. If I'm running harder, say closer to LT (about 160), it'll take a while to come down, but I don't usually train at those efforts (at least in past). A HR dropping from 160 running to 80 on a power hike would seem like an extremely well-trained runner (say, below 2:30 marathon - just pulling number from air), which was probably Nobby's intention.

    Howeer, from my own experience, I'm not convinced that the DROP in HR would result in stiff legs. I think it's related more to lack of training with walking and with the transition. At least that was my experience. I did get stiff initially, if I ran then hiked for say 5 min, although that could have been related to post-holing in knee deep snow (but that's why I know my HR didn't drop). But after several years of practicing hiking and the run/hike and hike/run transition, I seldom get stiff anymore. Granted, on a 10% hill with a pack, it's hard to start running again once you've hiked part, but I think it's more mental and getting the body moving again, rather than stiff legs.

    Typical power hike up some of our hills (mountains) may be in 75-85% max HR range. I'm not even close to being able to run 3000ft vertical of 30% slopes, although I can run parts.

    FWIW, in my recent 38-mi adventure, if I ran uphill with pack, HR would get into 150s (above 83% max HR). If I power hiked, it would be about 135, the same as an easy run. My HRM was set to record every 15sec. While there's lots of fuzziness in the trace as I negotiated terrain, overgrown trail segments, etc, the only major drops in the first half (6+ hrs, 2/3 uphill, 1/3 flat) were when I stopped to refill water (from stream/lake) which took about 3-6 min, and even then it only got down to 110 at lowest. Otherwise I was averaging about high 130s, running flats, hiking the ups. Running downhill it was mostly in the low 120s, then dropped to averaging about 110 while hiking downhill for the last couple hours. I mostly hiked the last part for some other reasons (downhill running in rain pants in rain in mud with noisy streams resulted in hiking being faster than running for me at that time because of extra pee breaks needed when running). Toward the end, I probably had been in hike mode long enough that running was a real struggle because of stiff muscles - I did try on a couple of the small uphills - but that was much longer flat / downhill walking than I had used in training. (I was on the trail for about 12:48 and longest long run had been about 8 hrs of run/walking. I'd done 2-3 hr hikes on rolling terrain, where muscle usage varies.) BUT that's a waaay longer walk break than Gallowalk uses.

    That said, I know some have used something like 25 min run / 5 min walk in 24-hr US championships and beat those that ran only - at least that time. (the numbers were based partly on some studies) This is not the same as 5 min run / 1 min walk. With the 25 min run, a trained runner can cover a fair bit of ground, the 5 min walk break does allow the HR to lower (not sure how much) and eating / drinking and food processing are easier to accomplish. But, the runners using it, train that way so the transitions aren't that difficult. The thing with 24-hr races is that the pace you might run to run continuously is slower than what a person might normally run, possibly with different form, so the run/walk allows more running at a gait / effort that is more common. Then eat/drink on the walk breaks. At least this was the reasoning given in the article I read.

    BTW, a fast experienced ultra runner can hike faster than many runners that are insisting on running up the hills - and the energy cost is much less, a critical strategy for longer events.

    I recognize these examples are probably beyond Gallowalk, but wanted to give some examples where run/walk is used.

    If I was running with a HR above 160 (like I was in a 4+ miler xc on Tues night), 'tweren't no way I was walking those hills. That was a distance / intensity / hill size I knew I could handle while running. Walking would have definitely been a stick in the spokes - at least at this point in my training. A couple years ago I probably would've walked some of the hills also, like many were doing. But the only way I got to where I am now was to use walk breaks until I could handle more.

  • brianfie Rookie 316 posts since
    Apr 6, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    17. Sep 6, 2007 2:57 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    quote:


    Originally posted by Jim Sullivan:
    * bq. Originally posted by willamona:

    On race day, I usually pass the Gallow-walkers several times.


     

    Funny, I never see them at all.

    [/B]


    1!

  • RunningNurse026 Rookie 20 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    18. Sep 6, 2007 3:01 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    quote:


    Originally posted by Jim Sullivan:
    * bq. Originally posted by willamona:

    On race day, I usually pass the Gallow-walkers several times.


     

    Funny, I never see them at all.

    [/B]

    Apparently that's because they're ahead of you! hehe!

    But seriously-don't knock it-it may not be for you but it works well for some people who would otherwise not be runners at all.



    ----



    Embrace the Journey

  • Jim Sullivan032 Rookie 504 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    19. Sep 6, 2007 3:22 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    quote:


    Originally posted by RunningNurse:

    But seriously-don't knock it-it may not be for you but it works well for some people who would otherwise not be runners at all.


     

    That logic has never made sense to me. It's a strategy that is mostly used for completing a marathon. So, what does that have to do with people who otherwise wouldn't be running? People don't generally get off the couch and start exercising for the purpose of finishing a marathon. At least, they shouldn't.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with people who use walk breaks. I just don't buy the idea that the method is something that introduces anyone to the sport. Rather, I'd say that marketing approach is the last refuge of a method that's having serious trouble justifying itself.

  • tmcaboy Rookie 16 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    20. Sep 6, 2007 3:35 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    I don't walk, but I have a lot more respect for someone taking walk breaks than for someone sitting on the couch.  Most of us over 30 are running for our health, and if that means someday I have to take walk breaks, I'll do it.

  • RunningNurse026 Rookie 20 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    21. Sep 6, 2007 3:44 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    quote:


    Originally posted by Jim Sullivan:
    * bq. Originally posted by RunningNurse:

    But seriously-don't knock it-it may not be for you but it works well for some people who would otherwise not be runners at all.


     

    That logic has never made sense to me. It's a strategy that is mostly used for completing a marathon. So, what does that have to do with people who otherwise wouldn't be running? People don't generally get off the couch and start exercising for the purpose of finishing a marathon. At least, they shouldn't.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with people who use walk breaks. I just don't buy the idea that the method is something that introduces anyone to the sport. Rather, I'd say that marketing approach is the last refuge of a method that's having serious trouble justifying itself.

    [/B]

    Hello, my name is Natalie and I'm training for my first marathon using the walk/run method.  I also trained for my first 5K and 10K using the same method.  Before I started running, the thought of running three or six miles was so overwhelming that I thought there was no way I could do it.  A friend introduced me to this method and the run/wak method seemed much less intimidating.  I can now run a five or ten K but a half or full marathon still seems overwhelming to me so this is a good method for me.  I'm sure eventually I'll be as good as you and can look down on those that walk sometimes but for now, it works for me.  Without the run/walk method I never would have started running.

  • IceStorm213 Rookie 352 posts since
    Nov 1, 2005
    Currently Being Moderated
    22. Sep 6, 2007 3:57 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    I took walk breaks until I didn't need to.

  • IceStorm213 Rookie 352 posts since
    Nov 1, 2005
    Currently Being Moderated
    23. Sep 6, 2007 4:06 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    but I still use an Ipod outside of races.  So shoot me.

  • Jim Sullivan032 Rookie 504 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    24. Sep 6, 2007 4:06 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    quote:


    Originally posted by RunningNurse:

    ...I'm sure eventually I'll be as good as you and can look down on those that walk...


     

    Didn't I just say that I have nothing against people who take walk breaks?

  • brianfie Rookie 316 posts since
    Apr 6, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    25. Sep 6, 2007 4:07 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    Are all Gallowalkers wannabe purist runners? Would they all prefer to run the whole thing if that could do it and faster?

    -b

  • RunningNurse026 Rookie 20 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    26. Sep 6, 2007 4:09 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    quote:


    Originally posted by Jim Sullivan:
    * bq. Originally posted by RunningNurse:

    ...I'm sure eventually I'll be as good as you and can look down on those that walk...


     

    Didn't I just say that I have nothing against people who take walk breaks?

    [/B]


    Yes, you did say that but the tone of your post did not support that.

  • Jim Sullivan032 Rookie 504 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    27. Sep 6, 2007 4:20 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    quote:


    Originally posted by RunningNurse:

    Yes, you did say that but the tone of your post did not support that.


     

    I'd say it's more reliable to go with what I say than what I don't say.

  • Mishypic Rookie 9 posts since
    Oct 12, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    28. Sep 6, 2007 4:37 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    I use walk breaks in my long runs.  I hope to use them minimally come race time. I use them like Galloway suggests, at times when I DON'T need them.  It works for me. I don't know why either, you would think it would slow me down but i feel much better when i use them in the beginning and towards the end of my long runs.

    I didn't use them at all in training or during a half marathon last year and it cost me big time. I know if i just would have walked a few times, I wouldn't have staggered and practically crawled my way to the finish line. This time, I'm training correctly and using walk breaks occasionally (excessive heat, or on long runs over 10 miles) and it helps me out greatly.

    Works for some, not for others I suppose! As always, it means listening to your body. If something is telling you "I need a break!" then take one. No shame in it.

    -michelle

  • brianfie Rookie 316 posts since
    Apr 6, 2001
    Currently Being Moderated
    29. Sep 6, 2007 5:27 PM (in response to qwestman)
    Re: walk breaks on long runs

    quote:


    Originally posted by mstescher:

    I use walk breaks in my long runs. I hope to use them minimally come race time. I use them like Galloway suggests, at times when I DON'T need them. It works for me. I don't know why either, you would think it would slow me down but i feel much better when i use them in the beginning and towards the end of my long runs. .

    -michelle


     



    I wonder if anyone can attempt an answer to a couple of questions.

    Is taking a walk break more effective, in tems of training effect, than slowing down and keeping on running?

    Can walk-running be though of as a way to keep average HR down on a run - like MAFF.

    What are the fastest times anyone has walked-raun a marathon with something like a 9/1 ratio.

    I feel I would hate walk/running. I feel I am cultivating a steady-seady state zone to run in and stopping would be terribly disruptive. Still I would like to see an explanation for its effectiveness.

    -b

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