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formationflier Rookie 974 posts since
Oct 13, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Dec 26, 2007 7:01 AM

Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

Once again, we need to restart this thread given that it's getting
impossible to get a post through due to its length. You probably
don't need to always read the whole thread just to ask a question,
but I request that you read through this post and, if still interested,
read through the FAQ.

Generally speaking, I like to focus this thread on posting
results and answering questions about basebuilding, endurance
building, low heart rate training, etc., using methods prescribed
by Maffetone, Mark Allen, Stu Mittleman, and the like. This is
far from a substitute for reading their publications, but it may be
a helpful supplement and you can glean something from real
people's real world experiences. My preference is to keep this
a thread on real-world experiences, not a big debate on theories
from experts. For the most part, by cutting
back all of my training paces tremendously, I improved times in
almost all race distance categories, over a period of about a
year. Examples:

1 M: 6:16 -> 5:36
2 M: 13:36 -> 12:10
5k: 21:20 -> 20:08
10k: 48:46 -> 42:24
10M: 77:45 -> 69:12
marathon: 4:03 -> 3:09
50M: 10:34 -> 7:53
100M: 18:53 (no time before low HR training to compare to!)

Also, nowadays, I can regularly run 3:10-3:20 marathons, many
in a year, even over a month or two, whereas
a couple years ago, I struggled to break 4 hours, over and over,
no matter how hard I worked in training.

If you're intrigued by this discussion, I'd suggest you read
the FAQ in my signature, along with some of the key links at
the top that I list. One factor that seems to be important in the
progress of this
approach is the need to incorporate enough downhill running at
fast pace (keeping heart rate up to the max MAF value - see
FAQ for what that means) for a reasonable percentage of volume.
In other words, make sure there's a little bit of a mix of faster
paced runs in your training, which you can do while staying
within the heart rate bounds by running on some extended downhills.
Simply put, find a hilly course for at least some of your runs. It
doesn't matter how slow you go up the hills (as long as you keep
the HR in check), but make sure you go fast enough on the downs
to keep your HR from getting too low. There's a 90% chance that
if you have a question, it's addressed in the FAQ.

Now, a few things that I should mention that are touched on in the
FAQ, but I'll reiterate here.

1. This is a not a promotion of slow-running. At least not in the
long term. For many that really need this, it will involve slowing
down, possibly a lot at first, in order to get faster for longer distances.
After 6 months to a year, your training pace may become faster
than it was when you started, at 20-30 beats lower heart rate.

2. There is nothing here that implies that running everything slow
will make you faster and faster, but rather that if you put in the good
time at a low enough heart rate range, you should be able to
extend the speed you currently have to longer distances.

3. We do tend to get in some discussions about physiology because
sometimes it's important to understand certain aspects. However,
I am not a physiologist and I much prefer to keep this thread about
real people, real occurrences, and not about theory and quotations
of famous (or not so famous) coaches and trainers. If you want
quotations from coaches and trainers, then do some research, check
out some books and read up! For the most part, the "example"
athletes discussed by most coaches and trainers are not everyday
runners like you and me. We do have a couple of physiologists
who post here that can answer some related questions.

4. My experience with this has been that the lower heart rate you
use, the better results, but the more painful it will be at first. Many
people will argue against that and try to provide you an excuse to
use a higher target heart rate. I can only say this - if anyone had
that excuse, it was me, and the higher heart rate target was not
successful for me. My max heart rate is at least 210 and my typical
training heart rate is about 139.

5. Nowhere will I tell you that you should always run everything
slow, but many people read a few lines here and there and make
that interpretation. Here are a few facts about this:
a. You probably need to slow down a lot at first if you're going
to use this approach.
b. You shouldn't expect to see much in the way of positive
results over the short term. The results appear over weeks
and months. If you want a quick fix, this is not the approach
for you.
c. After several weeks, things should start to improve. If they
are still getting worse after 4 weeks or so, it's time to step back
and see what's going on.
d. When you are achieving success with this approach, you may
continue to improve greatly, and possibly for a long time, as I
have. My feeling is that while you are still improving, why mess
with it? Transition to more intense training once you have gotten
all of the aerobic toothpaste out of the tube.

6. If your goal is to run the fastest marathon (or other aerobic race)
that you can possibly run, then eventually, you'll have to add more
aggressive training. This approach represents both a phase to
prepare for the next level of training as well as guidance for how to
keep your easy runs truly easy when you are training more aggressively.

7. I mentioned in another recent post in the last version of this thread
that there is a major paradox with aerobic development. Those
who have very poor aerobic conditioning will have a terribly slow
pace at a "deeply aerobic" low heart rate. These people will have to
spend a lot of time at low heart rates to develop their aerobic systems
and it will be painfully slow for a while. Even a very small volume of
higher heart rate activities will tend to interfere with the process. I
was in this category and I experienced this as have many others.
Those who have strong aerobic conditioning can already run a good
pace at a low heart rate. These people can add a significant volume
of higher intensity stuff and can still see further aerobic development.
I am in this category now. It's the ultimate insult to injury.

8. If you are in your low 20s or below or mid-50s or above, it may
take some real trial and error to find a good "maximum aerobic
function" heart rate. Also, if you have a very low max heart rate,
the same can be said. If you are in either of these situations, I
recommend that you read the Hadd article in the FAQ and follow
his guidance for selecting a basebuilding heart rate.

Now with that said, please read the following:

1. If you are interested in this approach, be aware that many people
have become extremely frustrated and angry when all of their
definitions of success have not been met, sometimes after 4 months.
For me, it was 6 months of dedicated running using a conservatively
low heart rate to achieve enormous (almost magical) benefits.
2. If you are starting just before or while it's hot and humid, you
are likely to see little or no progress over a good period of time.
That's not to imply that you won't see benefits - while those here
are posting how it was extremely difficult and frustrating to control
heart rate in a run, you'll see those following "traditional" approaches
elsewhere on coolrunning posting how they couldn't even finish
their runs.
3. If you want to be able to understand why this worked or didn't
work, not only will you have to strictly adhere to the guidelines,
but you will have to keep records. Keep in mind that many, many
people have been highly successful with almost no recordkeeping
and some cheating here and there, but when things don't work,
no one can answer your questions with out specific and credible
data. The posting of a few MAF tests does not constitute usable
data to understand what's going right and what's going wrong.
4. Some people will absolutely require some element of downhill
training to really see the pace improvement at low heart rates.
Just running a dead slow pace on flat ground may cause a decay
in running economy.
5. Think about what your goals are:
a. to run without injury?
b. to improve race times in so and so distances?
c. to have race times better projected from short to long distances?
d. to be able to run a good pace at low heart rates?
6. See how things are going every few weeks if your improvements
are not obvious. See if any adjustments need to be made.
...
If all you care about is running without injury, then you really don't
need to keep records. Run below MAF for a while and see if you're
not injured. That's an easy one. If improving race times is what you
want, then before you start MAF training, spend a couple of months
racing your distances of interest. Then after your stint of MAF training,
run similar races and see what happens. Don't use your pace at low
heart rates without any race times to say that you've failed if this
was your objective.

I don't really believe in MAF tests. Or, more specifically, I believe
every run is a MAF test. Record your splits and avg HR per split
for every run. Make note if you went over MAF heart rate for more
than a few seconds. That's not to say you should compare every
day to the previous day, but when there's a problem, you need to
start looking at your detailed history. None of us can really answer
any questions without it, or with just a couple of anecdotal facts
(e.g., my runs this week have been crummy).

When you ask the group why everything is going wrong, be prepared
to answer the following questions:

1. how many miles per week have you been running for how long?
2. how old are you?
3. what value are you using for MAF heart rate?
4. what were your race times before MAF training and after
MAF training?
5. what were your pace splits and avg HR per split for your runs
over the past couple of months? do you have HR/pace data on
a site such as motionbased that you can share? are you absolutely
strict, never going above MAF on any run? what was the
temperature and dewpoint during each run?
6. do you incorporate downhills into your runs? what is your
heart rate on the downhill segments? what does your heart rate
do on uphills?
7. do you take in any carbs within a couple of hours before your
runs?
8. do you deal with a lot of stress?
9. are you on any medications?
10. do you do any other activities, such as swimming, spin class,
aerobics, weightlifting, etc? are you below MAF on all?
11. what was your resting heart rate before your started MAF training?
what is it now?

As a reminder, my first pace was 17 min/mile on a treadmill. About
8 months later, it was in the low 7s on the treadmill, mid-8s outside.
But, most importantly all of my race times improved. I have a lot
of downhills in all of my runs and I speed up a lot on them. I eat
nothing before or during any run. All of my activities are below MAF
in training (not in races). Anyone can "catch me" being wrong on
anything I say about myself. My log is public - anyone is welcome
to dig through and prove me wrong. I'm sure I'm wrong quite a bit,
especially as the facts age.


----



MyRunningLog[/URL" target="_blank">
MyStuff[/URL" target="_blank">
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ[/URL" target="_blank">
My marathons and ultras[/URL" target="_blank">
My races and reports[/URL" target="_blank">

[http://This message has been edited by leitnerj (edited Oct-20-2007).|http://This message has been edited by leitnerj (edited Oct-20-2007).]

  • henrikker Rookie 20 posts since
    Sep 12, 2007

    A new thread, a clean sheet.

    Is there a prefferred breathing technique to use?.

    I am testing som 4-2, 2-2 and other, but dont know if there is something better that one could try.

    Very happy that I now am able to run all the way. Even though walk/run is still faster, the pace dont bother me anymore, and I am just happy to put on the miles.

  • MidPacker Rookie 16 posts since
    Nov 4, 2007

    Hey  Jesse, thanks for starting the new thread. I'd like you to all bear with me as I give you some backgruond and hopefully you'll give me some advice and direction.
    I'm just turning 55. I'm only running about 15 miles a week and not really paying attention to HR. I did at one time try MAF but simply didn't have the patience. I also tried Parker's method. Again I was frustrated because I was running @15 m/m on the TM to keep my HR under the 150 mark. My legs did feel better though. But I didn't stay with it. I did notice that when I stopped the lwo HR training that my stamina had gone kaput! Was this from not running faster at all?

    It seems that all the guys/gals here have run extensive distances up marathons before trying this method. Given that I'm more of a fitness runner is this something I should try again? Most miles will be done on the TM since I'm in New Engalnd and try to keep off the icy sidewalks. I guess this is long enough and thanks for listening.

  • Hi all.  Just wanted to introduce myself.  My name is Mark and I have been a lurker in the last thread for about 3 weeks.  I am running to get healthy and stay healthy for my family(wife, 12yr old daughter and boy and girl twins on the way !http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/smile.gif|src=http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/smile.gif|border=0!.  I am 36(almost 37 nov. 9).  I have a history of high blood pressure and type 2 diabetes.  In the past year 1.5 years I have lost 80 pounds(25 to go).  main reason maf training appeals to me is the less injury/aerobic benefits aspects to it.  I have only been doing maf training around 3 weeks but have already went from 2 mile max run to about 4.4 and I feel great.  Have high aspiration to finish a half-marathon and maybe even a full marathon neaxt year if things keep going so well.  Long run day is absolutely my favorite day and I have to make sure to try and not run to far to quick I am having so much fun.

    Anyways nice to meet you all and thanks for the great info.
    Happy running
    Mark

  • aharmer Rookie 452 posts since
    May 25, 2005

    quote:


    Originally posted by marktman:

    Hi all. Just wanted to introduce myself. My name is Mark and I have been a lurker in the last thread for about 3 weeks. I am running to get healthy and stay healthy for my family(wife, 12yr old daughter and boy and girl twins on the way !http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/smile.gif|src=http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/smile.gif|border=0!. I am 36(almost 37 nov. 9). I have a history of high blood pressure and type 2 diabetes. In the past year 1.5 years I have lost 80 pounds(25 to go). main reason maf training appeals to me is the less injury/aerobic benefits aspects to it. I have only been doing maf training around 3 weeks but have already went from 2 mile max run to about 4.4 and I feel great. Have high aspiration to finish a half-marathon and maybe even a full marathon neaxt year if things keep going so well. Long run day is absolutely my favorite day and I have to make sure to try and not run to far to quick I am having so much fun.

    Anyways nice to meet you all and thanks for the great info.
    Happy running
    Mark


     



    Welcome aboard Mark! Wow, you've got huge accomplishments under your belt already...congratulations. Keep plugging away and keep the great attitude and you'll be doing marathons before you know it.

    ----



    My Profile[/URL" target="_blank">

    "Pain is temporary. Regret hurts forever."
    [URL=http://www.analytical-training.blogspot.com]

  • MidPacker Rookie 16 posts since
    Nov 4, 2007

    Jesse, it seemed before I started MAF I had (at least for me decent stamina). 5k's around 28-29 minutes on roughly 10-12 miles a week. I use MAF for a month max!  I believe I was using a MAF rate of 130. The pace was excrusiating at around 17 minute miles.That was roughly 2 years ago. I wanted to increase distance and possibly run a half marathon. I have no illusions as to speed. I am definitely a mid-pack runner on a very good day.

    I see the post of everyone racing and running fairly comfortably. That was my goal originally and now. Any other questions or direction you can point me in feel free to comment. I appreciate all the godd advice.

    [http://This message has been edited by MidPacker (edited Oct-20-2007).|http://This message has been edited by MidPacker (edited Oct-20-2007).]

  • jjwaverly_42 Pro 388 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007

    My page 1 contribution:

    First, the Maffetone method, developed by Dr. Phillip Maffetone, is about creating a healthy, fit athlete. Being healthy means not running yourself into over-training, injury, and a weakened immune system (colds, flu, etc.). Maffetone wants to see you achieve your potential, but in a way that doesn't over-stress your body.


    There are three phases:

    1. Aerobic
    2. Anaerobic
    3. Rest, Recovery, Vacation

    ********Aerobic Phase******************<br /><br />6-time Ironman Tri Champ, Mark Allen, calls this the PATIENCE phase. This is an aerobic base-training phase run at or under a heart rate of 180-age (MAF). Why patience? Because 99% of the runners who first do this will be training slower than they ever have in their life, and it defies the current logic and beliefs of "no pain, no gain." It can be ego-busting and maddening at first, producing much whining in these threads.<br /><br />Just run all your miles at a pace that keeps your heart rate at or below your MAF. This will keep your body in a fat-as-fuel mode. As your slow twitch fibers develop, your body will get better at processing oxygen using fat, and you will eventually have to speed up in order to maintain the same heart rate. This phase is not about running slow, but running faster and faster at MAFbecoming a fat-fueled runner. The slowness is temporary. Remember, that temporary is sometimes a long time.<br /><br />An aerobic phase of 12-16 weeks at the beginning of the year is suggested. If you are a beginner, or are trying to rebuild a shot aerobic system and body, then longer periods are recommended. In these cases, if you're committed, eliminate all speed work until you no longer see improvement in your MAF tests or training paces at the same HR.<br /><br />As soon as Mark Allen started including this phase in his training, he began to win the Ironman.  He would do it the first 12 weeks of every new year as a base-training phase, and did it each year of each Ironman win, taking one year off to rebuild again. he also followed this phase with an intense Anaerobic Phase.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.markallenonline.com/heartrate.asp" target="_blank">Mark Allen On MAF[/URL" target="_blank">includes the rules of MAF base-training<br /><br />Fun things to do during the Patience phase:<br /><br />MAF  AEROBIC INTERVALS: warm-up for 15-30 minutes, then run a pace that gets your HR to your MAF, go for a 1/4 mile or 2-3 minutes, then slow down to a pace that brings your HR down to MAF-10. Go this pace for a 1/4 mile of 2-3 minutes. Do 6-10 repeats.<br /><br />MAF UPHILL REPEATS: If done on  a treadmill, do the same as aerobic intervals. Run a hill for a 1/4 mile or 2-3 minutes, bringing your HR to your MAF, then rest by running flat or 1% for the same distance or time. Start with 4 repeats and eventually build to 8. If done outside, you can do the same way as on the treadmill, or you can run the downhills at MAF as well, or run them at MAF-10.<br /><br />MAF DOWNHILL REPEATS: Choose a hill that isn't too steep, but long. Run the uphill slowly keeping your HR below MAF, then run down the hill getting your HR to MAF. This will help your turnover.<br /><br />MAF LOVEMAKING: Be creative, but stay under MAF, unless you're in the Anaerobic Phase.....<br /><br />*******************Anaerobic Phase**********<br /><br />A reminder to the MAF masses, and especially with those wallowing in the frustrating funkhood of the beginnings of the aerobic phase and practicing some high level whining, that there is a whole chapter in Training For Endurance by Phil Maffetone about an Anaerobic phase. I never called the Maffetone training LOW-HEART RATE trainingit's not. It's a form of training that has an aerobic phase and a phase that includes anaerobic work. Here are some quotes from Training For Endurance by Dr. Philip Maffetone Chapter 12 (2nd revised Edition, David Barmore Productions, ©2000):<br /><br />"once you've built sufficient aerobic function, your body may be ready to add anaerobic work. I say 'may' because many endurance athletes can often bypass this part of training, and rely instead on racing to get all the anaerobic stimulation necessary...<br /><br />....The main purpose of anaerobic training is to build the fast-twitch muscle fibers. For endurance athletes, maximum benefits can be achieved easily in as short a time as 3-4 weeks...<br /><br />...anaerobic workouts can be treacherous domain. This risky training is frequently the cause of injuries, fatigue and poor performance.<br /><br />..keep it simple...keep it short...if the duration of anaerobi workouts is excessive, it can contribute to overtraining and ill health...<br /><br />..including races, do not exceed 2-3 anaerobic workouts per week. For many athletes, one is sufficient...<br /><br />...the day before and after should be easy...never do two consecutive days...<br /><br />...45 minutes maximum...<br /><br />...do not exceed 90% MHR<br /><br />...always warm-up and cool down sufficiently...<br /><br />...Consider Mike Pigg's 1994 seasonone of his best. He won most of his races and finished high up in the rest. He did not do any anaerobic work until September, when most of his races were completed."<br /><br />Basically, he sees a need for it, after you've built your aerobic function for a good period of time. 4-10 weeks before the big race  depending on your level and age. You can use MAF tests to monitor progress or overtraining during this phase.<br /><br />**Rest, Recovery, Vacation****

    In the different phases of this training, remember to always follow the rules of recovery as close as possible. Suggestions:

    always follow a hard day (high mileage, speed, race) with an easy day (low miles, slow, total rest). After a hard race take it easy the following week. Depending on the distance, you might take anywhere from 1 day to 2 weeks total rest from running, or keeping whatever running you do very low mileage and under MAF. Some Maffers, like Jesse (Leitnerj) are still able to keep the volume high during a week after a race, but this usually means all runs are below MAF.<br /><br />increase volume of miles or time by no more than 5-10% per week. Cut back your miles or time on feet every 3rd or 4th week, resuming at a higher level after the recovery week.

    Maffetone recommends 1 rest day a week for age-group athletes.<br /><br />it doesn't hurt to take a few weeks off from running every year. Mark Allen would take many weeks off after the Ironman and not begin training  until the aerobic base phase in January.

    Whenever I've followed these rules, I've never been injured. I've never been injured in the aerobic phase of this training. My only injury came when I foolishly ran 80 miles the week after a hard-run, half-marathon PR. It happened during a 20-miler where I was running way too fast in the last 3rd of the run. Most likely if I would have kept below MAF during the run, I would have been fine. I would have definitely been fine if I just ran 40 miles that week below MAF with no long run! My body needed recovery, not a sledgehammer.


    If you haven't read Training for Endurance, I highly recommend it. Most of Maffetone's books cover the same info in each. So, search Maffetone on Amazon and you'll see his other books. High Performance Heart is good.

    MAF training sources:

    Maffetone Method by Dr. Phillip Maffetone[/URL" target="_blank">

    Training for Endurance by Dr. Phillip Maffetone[/URL" target="_blank">

    High Performance Heart by Dr. Phillip Maffetone[/URL" target="_blank">

    Mark Allen On MAF[/URL" target="_blank">

    Mark Allen On MAF Base-training[/URL" target="_blank">


    SLow Burn by Stu Mittleman[/URL" target="_blank">

    On a personal note. I think my 3:22 BQ/PR marathon and 1:34 half marathon at age 46, 5'10", 172 pounds, running just 3.5 years after a 4:14 marathon and 1:51 half marathon just two years earlier, speaks volumes for MAF training.

    Takes patience though. It can be a lonely pursuit. Even Mark Allen spoke about how tough it was to be left in the dust by his training partners day after day. Paid off in the end.

    Good luck. Keep going!


    --Jimmy

    MAF log[/URL" target="_blank">
    zzzzzzz[/URL" target="_blank">



    [http://This message has been edited by jjwaverly42 (edited Oct-22-2007).|http://This message has been edited by jjwaverly42 (edited Oct-22-2007).]

  • catwoman73 Rookie 105 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007

    Couldn't resist posting something on the brand new thread.

    I'm exactly 2 weeks away from my HM. Did a 10 mile run this a.m, and felt pretty good. I had no shin pain, but the muscles in my shin still felt tired. I think if I continue to take it easy, and keep the mileage lower than normal for the next two weeks, I'm gonna be fine for the race.

    I was really pleased to see that my pace stayed fairly consistent through the ten miles today (taking into consideration some rather large hills in miles 6-9). Mile 2 I did in 10:01 (HR 137), and Mile 10 I did in 10:53 (HR 145)- losing less than 1min/mile over ten miles. I don't think I could have done that 6 months ago.

    I got thinking about my last HM. It occurred to me that I ran the exact same 10 miler two weeks before my that race. I was curious to see how my performance was on that run vs. my run from this morning, so I looked it up. This morning, I finished 10.48 miles in 1:52:14 with a fairly consistent pace and an avg. HR on 141 (max of 151, very briefly. MAF=146). Five months ago, I finished in 1:42:52, with an average HR of 147, and a max of 159. Unfortunately, I don't have any split data on that run- I was using a pretty basic HRM at the time.

    At first I was lamenting about the loss of 10 minutes on the exact same run, but I had to remind myself that even though I don't have the split data for the first run, I'm willing to bet my life's savings that I spent the majority of that run at HR>150, and I'll bet my pace was nowhere near as consistent. I would also guess that I felt a lot more beat up after that run than I did after this one.

    Sigh..... sometimes its really tough to remind myself that progress isn't always measured by the time it takes to complete a certain distance. The real test of how far I've come will be in two weeks, but for now, I feel pretty good about where things are.

    ----



    ME![/URL" target="_blank">

  • streeetch Rookie 27 posts since
    Sep 16, 2006

    catwoman73 it will be interesting to see how your HM's compare.  The ability to maintain a consist pace and HR are the major improvements I've found since starting MAF training.  Since I don't do MAF tests I use race results to judge my training progress, haven't found a reason to change anything yet.

    Today I ran my final tune-up race in preparation for my first marathon (Nov. 11). I ran my first ever 25k and it went better then expected. I should have hit the lap button at 15k and 13.1. If I had, I'd have new PRs at both. Below is the HR and pace info. For comparisons sake I've included info from my last HM, completed in May of this year under similar weather conditions.

    25k 10/21/07..........15k 5/20/07
    60* - 58* Dew...........60* - 53* Dew
    1 8:14/138................8:52/143
    2 7:44/150................7:54/157
    3 7:50/150................8:01/159
    4 7:59/151................7:52/159
    5 8:05/150................7:58/159
    6 8:05/149................7:48/161
    7 7:55/149................7:52/162
    8 7:51/150................7:54/162
    9 7:53/150................7:57/162
    10 7:50/150...............7:57/160
    11 7:49/152...............7:52/164
    12 8:06/152...............7:49/165
    13 8:02/151...............7:35/169
    14 8:08/153
    15 8:27/152
    .69 5:40/154 8:14 pace

    Final numbers for today on Garmin were 15.69 miles, 2:05:47, 8:01/mile. 150 average HR/159 max

    Today's course was an out and back that Garmin says was a little long. The slightly downhill start and tailwind helped speedup miles 2 & 3 but hurt during the last 2 miles.

    It definitely didn't help that I ran a 5k yesterday. I couldn't resist, the starting line was 3 miles from my front door. I told myself to take it easy but of course that only lasted the first mile. I justified it to my wife by telling her that I had to do it to simulate the feeling of tired legs at the end of a marathon. I don't think she bought it.

    ----



    stretch[/URL" target="_blank">

    [http://This message has been edited by streeetch (edited Oct-21-2007).|http://This message has been edited by streeetch (edited Oct-21-2007).]

    [http://This message has been edited by streeetch (edited Oct-21-2007).|http://This message has been edited by streeetch (edited Oct-21-2007).]

  • howie86 Rookie 23 posts since
    May 10, 2007

    I found the information I read very interesting and useful.  My first objective when I train is "do not harm" and this seems like a good way to accomplish performance goals safely.  I am looking at a Timex Ironman HRM, as I use this style watch currently.  Any opinions on equipment, I know there is a lot of experience in here.

  • IceStorm213 Rookie 352 posts since
    Nov 1, 2005

    How can I get on page 1?

  • jjwaverly_42 Pro 388 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007

    quote:


    Originally posted by martinjames:

    How can I get on page 1?


     



    Be interesting, become an aerobigod, and do the Papelbon.[/URL" target="_blank">

  • dfcameron Rookie 124 posts since
    Apr 5, 2007

    Well... its been a while since I've posted; but using MAF training, I qualified for Boston yesterday for the first time in my life.   What's notable, is that I ran my first marathon 26(!) years ago, and thought it would be a good lifetime goal but never made it.

    What was the difference? First, I trained from Jan - Aug; starting at 35 MPW; and building to a 16 week base of 75-80 MPW at the end - 95% of it at MAF pace or slower. I never ran that high of mileage before; and would have been injured if I'd tried to do it faster. Second, I really wanted it this time, and knew it would be close. My MAF HR is 144-145. My Max HR is 187. I averaged 163 for the marathon; finishing well into the 170s. Mentally, I couldn't even tell you what the scenery was like the last 4 miles - it was tunnel vision.

    Anyway... this stuff really works.   Most of my training was around 9:30 min/mi pace (ranging from 8:45 min/mi pace to 11:00 min/mi pace) - and I finished the marathon in a little under 8:00 min/mi pace.

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