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1419 Views 15 Replies Latest reply: May 22, 2007 1:12 PM by 2slow4u RSS 1 2 Previous Next
dl999 Rookie 61 posts since
Feb 18, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

May 8, 2007 4:12 PM

50 mile times vs 100

so how is a 50 mile time an indicator of a 100 finish?
I have done 10.20 on a 50 and I am doing a 100 on a similar course. Could I break 24 and buckle?

  • jholtthief Rookie 111 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. May 8, 2007 5:16 PM (in response to dl999)
    Re: 50 mile times vs 100

    You'll hear alot of different thoughts on this I'm sure. My experience was this, I ran 9:51 at the VT 50 in September '05, and then did 24:36 at the VT100 in July '06. Looking back on it, I can see many things that I could have done differently during the race that could have saved me the 36 minutes, and then some. One thing I did learn, is that a 50 and a 100 are two totally different animals. All of the things you do, or don't do in the first 75 miles will make or break your race. It's all about patience and damage control.

  • timlooney019 Pro 354 posts since
    Nov 1, 2002
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. May 8, 2007 5:46 PM (in response to dl999)
    Re: 50 mile times vs 100

    quote:


    Originally posted by jholtthief:

    All of the things you do, or don't do in the first 75 miles will make or break your race. It's all about patience and damage control.


     



    I am going to keep this in mind at WS come June.  Thanks.

  • salad1 Rookie 49 posts since
    Oct 19, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. May 8, 2007 6:36 PM (in response to dl999)
    Re: 50 mile times vs 100

    agreed, i think that will be my mantra going into my first 50 this weekend.

  • kateMD Rookie 122 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. May 8, 2007 6:40 PM (in response to dl999)
    Re: 50 mile times vs 100

    I pulled this off the ultralist recently:

    Ever wondering about the relative difficulty among the 100 mile races? Between an Ironman and 100 mile ultra? half Ironman vs. 50 milers? Here is an analysis I have done using the data collected in the RealEndurance.Com database. The percentage is benchmarked against Western State 100.

    This may be a useful tool for those have a particular time goal in the 100 mile race, and want to use other event to gauge their training progress.

    A general trend can be observed below:

    From 50 km to 100 mile, factor is 4 to 6.
    From 50 mile to 100 mile, factor is 2.5 to 3.5

    Relative Event Finish Time to Western States 100 Mile Endurance Run.

    Sample Criteria:
    Same person completed both the event in the list and WS100 in the same year.
    The relative percentage is averaged over the samples.

    Distance Samples Event

    100m 18 161.3% Hardrock 100 Mile Endurance Run
    135m 44 158.7% BadWater Ultra Marathon
    100m 19 131.6% HURT Trail 100 Mile Endurance Run
    100m 355 119.0% Wasatch Front 100 Mile Endurance Run
    100m 12 112.4% Bear 100 Mile Endurance Run
    100m 30 111.1% Massanutten Mountain Trail 100 Mile Run
    100m 240 108.7% Angeles Crest 100 Mile Endurance Run
    100m 4 107.5% Superior Sawtooth 100 Mile
    100m 24 106.4% Cascade Crest 100 Mile Endurance Run
    100m 365 104.2% Leadville Trail 100 Miles Endurance Run
    100m 11 101.0% San Diego 100 Mile Endurance Run
    100m 6189 100.0% Western States 100 Miles Endurance Run
    100m 44 92.6% Rio Del Lago 100 Mile Endurance Run
    100m 5 90.1% SULPHUR SPRINGS 100 Mile
    100m 10 87.0% Mohican Trail 100 Mile
    100m 55 87.0% Arkansas Traveller 100 Mile
    100m 69 87.0% Old Dominion 100 Mile One Day Run
    100m 11 86.2% Javelina Jundred 100 Mile Endurance Run
    100m 233 84.7% Vermont Trail 100 Miles Endurance Run
    100m 7 84.0% Heartland 100 Mile Endurance Run
    100m 5 82.6% Kettle Moraine 100 mile
    100k 13 82.6% HURT Trail 100k option
    100m 4 80.0% Old Dominion 100 mile Memorial Day run
    100m 31 80.0% Umstead 100 Mile Endurance Run
    100m 82 79.4% Rocky Raccoon 100mi
    140m 4 71.9% IronMan CoeurdAlene
    140m 3 71.4% IronMan Canada
    100k 19 60.2% Where's Waldo 100K
    200m 4 59.2% Mt Tam Double Century 200m bike ride
    140m 9 57.5% IronMan Wisconsin
    100k 10 51.5% Bandera 100km
    140m 10 50.3% IronMan USA Lake Placid
    50m 95 47.8% Zane Grey 50 Miles
    100k 626 47.2% Miwok 100K
    100k 11 46.1% Kettle Moraine 100 km
    140m 3 44.6% IronMan Hawaii World Championship
    140m 9 44.6% IronMan Florida
    52m 192 39.7% Sierra Nevada Endurance Run
    100k 95 39.5% Ruth Anderson 100k
    50m 46 38.5% Crown King Scramble
    50m 91 38.3% White River 50 Miles
    50m 20 36.9% Tahoe Rim Trail 50m
    50m 48 36.9% Run on the Sly 50m
    50m 283 36.8% FireTrail 50 Miles
    50m 212 36.5% Nugget 50 Miles Endurance Run
    50m 299 36.5% Quicksilver 50 Mile
    50m 12 36.1% McNaughton Park Trail Runs
    50m 194 35.1% Silver State 50m
    50m 324 34.6% California 50 Miles Endurance Run
    50m 4 34.0% Mt Hood PCT 50m
    50m 28 33.4% McKenzie River 50k
    50m 1658 33.4% American River 50 Miles Endurance Run
    50m 106 33.3% Cow Mountain 50 Miles
    50m 23 32.7% Umstead 50 Miles Endurance Run
    50m 150 32.7% Avalon 50 Miles
    50k 199 32.4% Silver State 50k
    50k 41 31.8% Baldy Peak 50k
    50m 12 31.5% Rocky Raccon 50 Miles
    35m 24 31.2% Santa Barbara 9 Trails 35 Mile Run
    50m 290 30.5% Jed Smith 50m
    50m 102 30.2% Helen Klein 50m
    50m 15 29.0% Ruth Anderson 50m
    36m 3 28.2% Haleakala Run to the Sun
    50k 31 28.2% Tahoe Rim Trail 50k
    38m 13 27.4% Haleakala Run to the Sun
    50k 254 23.8% Ohlone Wilderness 50K Trail Run
    71m 13 23.4% WildFlower Long Course Triathlon
    71m 9 23.1% California Half Ironman
    34m 20 22.6% Peterson Ridge Rumble 60k
    50k 6 22.5% Bandera 50km
    50k 57 22.3% Run on the Sly 50 Km
    50k 152 22.1% Golden Gate Headlands 50k
    28m 406 22.1% Quad Dipsea
    50k 88 21.9% McDonald Forest 50K
    50k 80 21.6% Crown King Scramble
    50k 16 21.0% Bulldog 50K Ultra Run
    50k 35 20.9% Chuckanut 50k
    50k 12 20.7% Siskiyou Out Back 50K
    50k 340 20.6% Skyline 50k
    50k 197 20.2% Quicksilver 50K
    50k 870 20.0% Way Too Cool 50k
    50k 39 19.8% Hagg Lake Trail Runs
    50k 21 19.4% McKenzie River 50k
    50k 10 18.6% Ruth Anderson 50k
    50k 88 17.7% OTHTC High Desert Ultra 50k
    50k 8 17.2% Salem Lakeshore Frosty Fifty Km
    50k 268 17.0% Jed Smith 50K
    50k 23 16.9% Helen Klein 50k
    45m 9 13.8% Santa Barbara Long Course Triathlon



    ----



    My Profile[/URL" target="_blank">

  • salad1 Rookie 49 posts since
    Oct 19, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. May 9, 2007 4:35 PM (in response to dl999)
    Re: 50 mile times vs 100

    A little unnerving to see the SD 100 edge out Western States, considering the PCT 50 this weekend is basically a subset of the SD 100.

  • Altair Rookie 40 posts since
    Feb 9, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. May 9, 2007 8:30 PM (in response to dl999)
    Re: 50 mile times vs 100

    My 2 cents (not sure if it's worth that) is that the two races are completely different animals. A 50-miler is "just" a really long race. A 100-miler is a long more than a really, REALLY long race because you are dealing not only with endurance but staying awake for roughly 24 hours and night-running. My first 24-hour I made a ton of mistakes. The 2nd time, I made different mistakes. Despite reading lots and having a plan, I found that sleep deprivation did not lead to logical thinking. I'm hoping 3rd time's a charm.

  • 2slow4u Rookie 34 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Dec 27, 2007 12:52 AM (in response to dl999)
    Re: 50 mile times vs 100

    My own personal experience is a range from about 2.2 - 2.7,  so it seems the 2 1/2 times estimate is pretty close.  However, as has been mentioned above, there are so many variables that come into play, that each race is totally different, even if it's the same trail, the same time of year, and the same old you.

    However, I think a sub-24 is easily within reach with a 10 hour 50-miler. I ran a 100 this spring in just over 23 hours and ran a 50 a month later in 10 hours. The runs are reversed from yours, but it should give you some idea. If it's your first 100, I'd recommend concentrating on finishing first and accept anything else as icing.

    [http://This message has been edited by 2slow4u (edited May-10-2007).|http://This message has been edited by 2slow4u (edited May-10-2007).]

  • CinCityRunner096 Rookie 50 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. May 18, 2007 4:34 PM (in response to dl999)
    Re: 50 mile times vs 100

    Run the first 50 like you have some sense (11-12 hours), and if you are feeling good, then try to hold that same pace.  If you are able to hold the pace, then you have 24:00 in the bag.  As I am sure you are expecting, the 2nd 50 miles are a bit tougher.

    Really focus on food, fluids and taking care of yourself in general. A good pacer toward the end can help keep you moving when you will want to sit or walk.

    As others said, do not push too hard early, or you will pay later.

    Good luck.

  • markc7079 Rookie 190 posts since
    Sep 7, 2002
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. May 18, 2007 4:38 PM (in response to dl999)
    Re: 50 mile times vs 100

    As was mentioned earlier in the thread, a 100 miler is completely different from a 50 miler because of the night running element.  Alot depends on how comfortable/experienced you are at running at night.  Most people slow down at night, some people slow way down.  What sort of night running have you done in training or past races?

    ----



    Mark

    My User Profile[/URL" target="_blank">

  • formationflier Rookie 974 posts since
    Oct 13, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. May 18, 2007 6:12 PM (in response to dl999)
    Re: 50 mile times vs 100

    I think I have a pretty good reference, although a bit
    contorted. Sprinkling in a bit twisted logic, and I'll give what
    I would consider a reasonable example. At Umstead this
    year, I ran the first 50 mile split in 7:53. If I had run all out
    to exhaustion, I may have pulled off 7:30. At that point it
    as getting very hot out (for what I was used to at the time)
    and I slowed to a very pleasant pace (that I probably would
    have done no matter what I had previously done, given the
    temperature). I finished in 18:53, way better than I ever
    would have expected. I'm quite certain that no matter what
    I had done better, but perhaps in cooler temperatures, I
    might have broken 18 (after all, most would say that you
    wouldn't want to hit a 50 mile PR during a 100 mile race),
    but that would have really been a stretch. So, given a
    course where the second 50 miles is the same as the first,
    you can't come up with a better reference. So, with a
    nebulous wave of my hand and some bizarre "logic," I
    would say that a 7:30 50 miler, would roughly translate
    to an 18 hour 100 miler on the same course. Hence, I
    will claim a factor of 2.4 going from 50 to 100 with other
    conditions being equal. Clear as mud, right?

    Now, of course there's the issue that the number of things
    that can go wrong going from 50 to 100 grows exponentially,
    so there's a high level of noise that one would have to
    apply to such a formula!

    ----



    MyRunningLog[/URL" target="_blank">
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    Low Heart Rate Training FAQ[/URL" target="_blank">
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  • mudrunner040 Rookie 375 posts since
    May 27, 2004
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. May 19, 2007 9:43 PM (in response to dl999)
    Re: 50 mile times vs 100

    There is no formula that works.

    Even the ultralist formula is flawed. I plugged in some of my results for fun, & found the time swere out of whack. Too many variables come into play, & in a 100 miler they are exponentially exposed.

    Look at what happened at WS with last year's heat....& snow the year prior....throw in personal effects, & you are looking at a very broad ballpark.

    Best to heed dl999's advise & exercise patience. Also, a 100 miler is a battle of calories.

  • Double075 Rookie 3 posts since
    Feb 6, 2003
    Currently Being Moderated
    14. May 20, 2007 7:39 AM (in response to dl999)
    Re: 50 mile times vs 100

    quote:


    Originally posted by dl999:

    so how is a 50 mile time an indicator of a 100 finish?
    I have done 10.20 on a 50 and I am doing a 100 on a similar course. Could I break 24 and buckle?


     



    Not a good indicator. Training will be the factor. It appears from your 50 mile time you will have to increase your training to have any chance of a sub 24.

    Good Luck,
    Double

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